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> give it to them as a freelance job I've always wondered why this isn't more common. It's win-win to be able to test the waters in this way. What downsides am

> give it to them as a freelance job I've always wondered why this isn't more common. It's win-win to be able to test the waters in this way. What downsides am I not seeing?

normal_man 8y ago
Difficult to hire people who already have a job and aren't interested in moonlighting.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
indigo945 8y ago
In addition to what the other commenters wrote, take-home assignments are also negative for diversity as they pre-select against candidates with less free time, which likely includes single parents and people from low-income backgrounds.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  Gotta be honest about this. You are applying to a job of 40 hours a week and 6 figure salaries, and you cant make time for 10 hours of work?
  - celestialjeu 8y ago
    You might currently be working a job that is 50 hours a week -- or 60! Also with the example of a single parent they often can't make room for yet another 10 hours of a work in a week because they need to spend time with their children/take them to activities/cook dinner etc. Manageable when you are working 40 hours a week but it quickly becomes unreasonable. To me a job that wants me to work for them before I have an actual job offer is a red flag. I don't even work for them yet and they don't respect my time. What's it going to be like when I do work for them?
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Sorry, this triggers no empathy to me. This is alledgedly a workforce that requires years of study ,training and practice. Being unable to work 10 hours to prove it shows you are a pauper, all the other excuses are complacency.
      - ball_of_lint 8y ago
        Quitting your job or dropping some other responsibilities might he reasonable for some people who can live off of their parents money or their own savings, but for many people that means losing their home, their car, or even their children. Indigo945 isn't making excuses for them or himself; he's telling you that for them to make that 10 hours would cost them far more than the new job might give. Also, if anyone should be able to make another 10 hours in their week to work in tech why not say Steve who works at $BigTechCo? Now I know we just asked Steve for another 10 hours, but lets go ask him for another 10. No, the circumstances shouldn't matter, he's making 6 figures after all. Let's ask him again. And again, And again. Oh, Steve quit? What a pauper.
        conanbatt 8y ago
        > Indigo945 isn't making excuses for them or himself; he's telling you that for them to make that 10 hours would cost them far more than the new job might give. Thats not a "people cant do 10 hours" its a "they dont want to" which is perfectly reasonable. The company that gives 10 horsu of work better be appealing. But saying that take home assignments are bad because they take time people cant afford to give is complete bs.
        oarabbus_ 8y ago
        I have trouble believing you aren't being facetious, trolling, or willfully ignorant. If you've spent any sort of time in this industry at all, you know that people apply to many places at once. Sure, one 10-hour assignment isn't much, but although you seem to live in a fantasy world where people only apply to (and receive) one "job application homework assignment" at a time, that's not actually how the real world works. Companies that tend to pull such nonsense also tend to have poor work cultures. I suppose it self-selects for people who don't have a family or out-of-work commitments, but maybe that's what they're going for.
  - indigo945 8y ago
    If you are applying to only one job, you are either in a position where you don't have to do silly homework exercises (i.e. you already have a foot in the door) or you're not doing job searches right. For most people, it is far more reasonable to assume that they might apply to 3-5 jobs at once, and going by your estimate of 10 hours of work per job prospect, they would need to take an entire week off just to get to the point where they're offered an interview. Everything else regarding your argument has already been covered by other users.
  - draw_down 8y ago
    The problem is you typically need to complete it before even talking to anyone. If end up not being interested in the company then the take-home is a waste of time. So if you're asked to do it before even talking to someone, you have no indication of what the risk of wasting that time will be. Plus one does not typically apply for a single job when looking.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    When I was applying for a job about 3 years ago, I scheduled six phone screens from different companies in one day. They all led to invitations for in person interviews, and all four in person interviews I ended up doing led to “40 hour a week, six figure jobs”. I’m no special snowflake - except for my network of local recruiters. Why would I go through the song and dance? The salary ranges for senior developers/architects were all around $20K of each other. Unless the company is offering salaries in the 80th percentile, why would I jump through hoops just to work on a company’s software as a service CRUD app? My last job hunt, I found the job that met all of my criteria (salary, technology, commute distance, size of company) within two weeks of looking.
xorcist 8y ago
You're basically limiting your skill pool to those without a job. Or a family. Certainly not both.
quicklyfrozen 8y ago
Lots of good arguments against here. But assuming this assignment is in lieu of the usual 6+ hour whiteboard exam, then I say bring it on -- it's a lot less intrusive to my schedule.

> give it to them as a freelance job I've always wondered why this isn't more common. It's win-win to be able to test the waters in this way. What downsides am I not seeing?

normal_man 8y ago

Difficult to hire people who already have a job and aren't interested in moonlighting.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

indigo945 8y ago

In addition to what the other commenters wrote, take-home assignments are also negative for diversity as they pre-select against candidates with less free time, which likely includes single parents and people from low-income backgrounds.

conanbatt 8y ago
Gotta be honest about this. You are applying to a job of 40 hours a week and 6 figure salaries, and you cant make time for 10 hours of work?
- celestialjeu 8y ago
  You might currently be working a job that is 50 hours a week -- or 60! Also with the example of a single parent they often can't make room for yet another 10 hours of a work in a week because they need to spend time with their children/take them to activities/cook dinner etc. Manageable when you are working 40 hours a week but it quickly becomes unreasonable. To me a job that wants me to work for them before I have an actual job offer is a red flag. I don't even work for them yet and they don't respect my time. What's it going to be like when I do work for them?
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Sorry, this triggers no empathy to me. This is alledgedly a workforce that requires years of study ,training and practice. Being unable to work 10 hours to prove it shows you are a pauper, all the other excuses are complacency.
    - ball_of_lint 8y ago
      Quitting your job or dropping some other responsibilities might he reasonable for some people who can live off of their parents money or their own savings, but for many people that means losing their home, their car, or even their children. Indigo945 isn't making excuses for them or himself; he's telling you that for them to make that 10 hours would cost them far more than the new job might give. Also, if anyone should be able to make another 10 hours in their week to work in tech why not say Steve who works at $BigTechCo? Now I know we just asked Steve for another 10 hours, but lets go ask him for another 10. No, the circumstances shouldn't matter, he's making 6 figures after all. Let's ask him again. And again, And again. Oh, Steve quit? What a pauper.
      - conanbatt 8y ago
        > Indigo945 isn't making excuses for them or himself; he's telling you that for them to make that 10 hours would cost them far more than the new job might give. Thats not a "people cant do 10 hours" its a "they dont want to" which is perfectly reasonable. The company that gives 10 horsu of work better be appealing. But saying that take home assignments are bad because they take time people cant afford to give is complete bs.
        oarabbus_ 8y ago
        I have trouble believing you aren't being facetious, trolling, or willfully ignorant. If you've spent any sort of time in this industry at all, you know that people apply to many places at once. Sure, one 10-hour assignment isn't much, but although you seem to live in a fantasy world where people only apply to (and receive) one "job application homework assignment" at a time, that's not actually how the real world works. Companies that tend to pull such nonsense also tend to have poor work cultures. I suppose it self-selects for people who don't have a family or out-of-work commitments, but maybe that's what they're going for.
- indigo945 8y ago
  If you are applying to only one job, you are either in a position where you don't have to do silly homework exercises (i.e. you already have a foot in the door) or you're not doing job searches right. For most people, it is far more reasonable to assume that they might apply to 3-5 jobs at once, and going by your estimate of 10 hours of work per job prospect, they would need to take an entire week off just to get to the point where they're offered an interview. Everything else regarding your argument has already been covered by other users.
- draw_down 8y ago
  The problem is you typically need to complete it before even talking to anyone. If end up not being interested in the company then the take-home is a waste of time. So if you're asked to do it before even talking to someone, you have no indication of what the risk of wasting that time will be. Plus one does not typically apply for a single job when looking.
- scarface74 8y ago
  When I was applying for a job about 3 years ago, I scheduled six phone screens from different companies in one day. They all led to invitations for in person interviews, and all four in person interviews I ended up doing led to “40 hour a week, six figure jobs”. I’m no special snowflake - except for my network of local recruiters. Why would I go through the song and dance? The salary ranges for senior developers/architects were all around $20K of each other. Unless the company is offering salaries in the 80th percentile, why would I jump through hoops just to work on a company’s software as a service CRUD app? My last job hunt, I found the job that met all of my criteria (salary, technology, commute distance, size of company) within two weeks of looking.

xorcist 8y ago

You're basically limiting your skill pool to those without a job. Or a family. Certainly not both.

quicklyfrozen 8y ago

Lots of good arguments against here. But assuming this assignment is in lieu of the usual 6+ hour whiteboard exam, then I say bring it on -- it's a lot less intrusive to my schedule.