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Millions of Americans Flood into Mexico for Health Care
- everybodyknows 8y agoAn older relative lives in San Diego. Badly neglected his teeth, and later in life needed implants for all 28. A few years after having the work done in Tijuana, decay was discovered at the roots. All 28 have now been replaced, by a stateside specialist, and his retirement savings are considerably depleted.
- everybodyknows 8y agoHmm. Local, factual anecdote, actionable information -- downvoted. What sort of HNer would do such a thing?
- Juliate 8y agoHa. Maybe the wall is not so much about keeping people out, but also about keeping people in? and monetize the doors either way?
- QuantumAphid 8y agoHuh? Americans needing healthcare are walking into Mexico? And outside the standard ports of exit/entry?
- suyash 8y agoLand border is a legal port of entry/exit that thousands of people cross everyday in this country.
- QuantumAphid 8y agoThere are 328 official legal points of entry into the United States where documentation is required. 9-11 changed a lot of things in the US, and this is one of them. Border patrol agents (of any nationality) are not fun to spend time with. Also immigration attorneys are expensive.
- Juliate 8y agoThat's my point. The wall would be there to physically enforce specific mandatory points of entry. And I don't find it far-fetched now that Trump would make friends financially benefit from the wall construction first, then from future private-handling of ports of entrance.
- paleotrope 8y agoNice deceptive picture of the traffic trying to get into the US.
- arbuge 8y agoWhat exactly is deceptive about it? From the article: "According to Mayor Christian Camacho, up to 6,000 dental refugees make their way to Los Algodones every day in the temperate season between Thanksgiving and March." That is just one border town in Mexico...
- paleotrope 8y agoThe picture is of the Mexican side of the crossing.
- arbuge 8y agoThe article is about Americans going to Mexico for cheaper healthcare options. It gives an accurate picture of that situation, and the title is an accurate indication of what the article covers. It is not about the separate issue of "traffic trying to get into the US", so even if that happens to be your primary concern, attacking it for not covering that seems rather nonsensical to me.
- paleotrope 8y agoThe article and headline is about people "flooding into" mexico for dental care. The photo with the article shows people trying to get into the us. There isn't traffic or a wait going into mexico. It was an editorial choice to show that picture.
- rootusrootus 8y agoWell, everyone going over has to come back eventually...
- r-s 8y agoI am a Canadian and I have traveled to Mexico for dental care multiple times. It worked out way cheaper cheaper, and I got some nice vacations out of it. I have heard horror stories but my experience has been great. For those unaware, Canadians do not have universal dental care. It can be very expensive here, when the Canadian dollar was stronger I knew people traveling to the USA.
- shados 8y agoI lost a few teeth because of lack of dental insurance in Canada. Some companies provide it as a benefit, but they're far and few in between. It's not too surprising, either: since you have universal healthcare, a lot more companies don't provide insurance (which would be complementary). In the US, it's definitely not the norm to have dental insurance, but it is to have insurance as a benefit, at which point dental is just an add-on for companies to provide (I'm obviously oversimplifying). I've never worked for a company in the US that didn't provide dental (even though I know it is common-ish), but in Canada I only worked for a few in the same field who did provide it.
- kazinator 8y agoExtended insurance is not free; your employer has to pay that, and it comes out of your salary, effectively. "Insurance" for recurring items like dental cleanings, massages and whatnot isn't "insurance" in the regular sense of the word; it is pure overhead. It's gamed so that the insurance company makes money, otherwise why would they do this. You pay them $5 so they give you back $4 and send you to the dentist, massage, or whatever. There are yearly limits, and you cannot get any left over cash back that you have not used! Since I started contracting, I put away 300-something dollars each month into a health insurance bank account, and then I go to the darned dentist as I would under extended health insurance. Whatever is left over in that account is mine. I have a basic emergency insurance for 300-something per year, that doesn't cover any routine, recurring services. It will cover emergency dental, like having teeth broken in an accident. Anyone who doesn't have coverage, but otherwise has a good job, yet doesn't go to the dentist because of "I don't have coverage" is purely a victim of psychology, not of any actual economic circumstances.
- irrational 8y agoBut... Mexicans are Americans. Do they mean Millions of Citizens of the USA Flood into Mexico for Health Care?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- chooseaname 8y agoYou're on HN, do you think you're saying anything we all don't know to be technically true?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kazinator 8y agoDebate about the semantics of "American" lacks substance; there are broadly understood contexts in which "America" refers to the USA. E.g. the 'A' in ASCII or ANSI, "anti-American sentiment" (not aimed at Mexicans at all) and such. Trump's "Make America great!" isn't understood as "make all of North, Central and South America great". This "America == USA" synecdoche is international; it transcends cultures and appears in many languages, not only English.
- headcanon 8y agoCounterpoint, pretty much all of what we call Latin America does not differentiate semantically between North and South America in common discourse - they refer to themselves as "Americans" living in "America", where USA happens to be an "American" country. Outside of that part of the world, you're largely correct, "America" == "USA"
- ssalazars 8y agoAs a mexican living in the US couldn't agree more. Need an ultra sound? Wait for 3-4 weeks. Want an MRI? Wait for 2-3 months. Why can't I get immediate care when I need it without having to step on the emergency room and pay (probably) thousand(s) USD?
- hourislate 8y agoAs a Canadian Expat living in the USA I have never had to wait for any kind of Medical attention. I could get an MRI or Ultrasound in 30 minutes in DFW. My doctor can call ahead to the hospital and by the time I arrive they will be ready for me. When I lived in Canada I waited 8 months to see a Neurologist for a slipped disk in my neck. During my visit he asked how long I waited because it had healed on its own, I told him 8 months and he shook his head and apologized.
- shdh 8y agoIn Canada you need to game the urgency of your ailment. Your mileage varies everywhere.
- hervature 8y agoThe reason they are going to Mexico are for dental care, not doctor care. They are also going because of the cost and lack of insurance, not of the wait times. The wait time for dentistry in the US is just north of 8 minutes[0]. Also, your numbers seems off by an order of magnitude. MRI wait times are 2-4 weeks [1]. Couldn't find any stats on ultrasonography. [0] - https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-relationships/patient-wait-times-in-america-9-things-to-know.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-rel... [1] - https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/08/mri-wait-times-must-be-shortened-to-improve-health-care-cornell-researchers-say/ https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/08/mri-wait-times-must-be-sho...
- eschutte2 8y agoI've never had to wait for an MRI or ultrasound in the US.
- theredbox 8y agoI am from Central Europe and I opt for a private doctor (meaning I pay for all of it) and while it is insanely cheaper here compared to the US trust me that the "free healthcare" is a myth in a sense it is not a silver bullet.
- davidw 8y agoNo system is perfect and, no, there is no silver bullet. But US health care costs more as a % of GDP, and doesn't lead to appreciably better outcomes.
- bluGill 8y agoI'm told that most of the cost is the US will treat people longer who are going to die in a short time. Someone who will die in 2 weeks can have their life extended to 4 weeks with expensive care... Of course the costs are much higher and outcomes don't change much. For normal care (meaning you are expected to live a good life for a long time latter) costs are more in line.
- davidw 8y agoWhen I'd go to the doctor in Italy, I'd basically go the waiting room and take a number. When it was your turn (some doctors were pretty fast - 10/15 minute wait - others were slow) you'd go in and see the doctor. No other staff needed. Compare and contrast with a US doctor who has a number of support staff, one of whom is probably full time doing nothing but insurance paperwork. IDK all the details, but when the US looks more bureaucratic than Italy of all places... something isn't right. Of course it's definitely a complicated system and more expensive end of life care is probably part of it too.
- pkaye 8y agoI think some of those staff are there because doctors are highly compensated in the US. The staff is there to maximize the utilization of the doctor's time.
- adolph 8y agoThe article focuses on dental care specifically, not healthcare in general. Most dental plans don’t cover much at all beyond regular check-ups, cleaning, X-rays and fillings. Beyond that, patients are expected to fork over much of the cost of large but common procedures like crowns, root canals and implants. One of the reasons dental care is so expensive in the United States is insurance. Another cost for US dentists is malpractice insurance, which is not required in Mexico. Dental work in Mexico is on average two-thirds less than in the US and customers may save 80 percent or more on some costly operations. I've gotten a cleaning in Nuevo Laredo 10-15 years ago while in school. It was very straightforward and I'd do it again if the circumstances warranted.
- wahern 8y ago> Another cost for US dentists is malpractice insurance, which is not required in Mexico. Sad that this article perpetuates this myth about costs. Malpractice insurance for a dentist is about $3000/year. At $250/month the malpractice insurance is paid off after the first couple of patients on the first day of the month. Another way to look at it: The average revenue for a dental practice seems to fall somewhere between $500000-$700000. So even if malpractice insurance were $5000/year, that would still be less than 1% of revenue. In the supposedly grossly litigious United States, it should raise some eye brows that a professional who is widely feared for causing pain and discomfort, who's interventions are often destined to fail sooner rather than later, pays so little.
- ausbah 8y ago>The government provides basically tuition-free education. “When we get out of school, we have to pay the government, but we do it by one year of free service, and that’s it,” Miguel Ibarreche of the Sani Dental Group... Can anyone speak about this as a model for college tuition?
- headcanon 8y agoAmericans call it ROTC - free college but you have to march around campus for 4 years, and do (5 years?) when you graduate. GI bill also pays college tuition in exchange for military service. some NGOs like Peace Corps and possibly Teach for America will also provide tuition reimbursement. Changing the model to adopt more civilian alternatives would remove a big incentive to join the military, so I doubt thats going to happen anytime soon, they're already having a historically hard time recruiting.
- moate 8y agoWhile that's valid, it's possible an outside organization could do that themselves. IANAL, so there may be regulations in place relating to apprenticeships, etc. on the matter, but it seems like trade organizations could do this. We offer you a scholarship, in exchange you agree to X hours of work over the first Y months after you graduate.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Allower 8y agoWhen will we start treating american politicians and lobbyists for what they are: criminals.
- noonespecial 8y agoThe rhetoric in this article is disingenuous. Regardless of your political persuasion, there is an enormous difference between someone walking across the border for a single day to purchase a good or service in another country and an economic refugee seeking permanent or semi-permanent resettlement in a host nation. Americans heading for Cancun are not "vacation refugees" either.
- pacofvf 8y agoWe have socialized health care, so you may think that you spend some dollars on the Mexican economy but, the American Caravan distorts our markets and drive prices up.
- kingofhdds 8y agoAll kinds of foreign tourists drive prices up for a lot of things, but nevertheless they really bring money to Mexican economy.
- pacofvf 8y agoBut tourists drive prices up for markets that aren't regulated like hotels or restaurants, Healthcare is regulated and we will probably see some kind of legislation towards this issue with the new Mexican government, it probably will make it even cheaper for you guys to come here but you will have to enroll on our socialized healthcare.
- deogeo 8y agoYou are mistaken - I was assured by many sources in the media that immigration, even temporary, has no down-sides.
- gammateam 8y agoThis is an article about medical tourism. Its the same article no matter which country people are traveling to. The fact that it is about Mexico or Latin America at all enables political comparisons for perspective. Its an irony or tragedy when people can't get care in their host country with stronger infrastructure in other places.
- baldfat 8y agoI had my big toe have surgery done when I lived on the border in California, a LONG time ago. It was a 25 minute drive from my house and a friend used the doctor prior. 1) US Doctor wanted $600 and in Mexico it was $85. Everything went well and I was happy I did it in Mexico. 2) I had to buy my needles and all other medicine that was used on me. Cost me $15. Weird buy that stuff, but back then people were afraid of used needles and cheap meds. 3) I also bought my antibiotics off the shelf and got 500 pills for $8. Meds in Mexico are so much cheaper.
- UncleEntity 8y agoI've been thinking of taking a trip south of the border to get the teeth fixed up, turns out it isn't so good for them to not go to a dentist since '92. Talked to a few folks who've done it and they were happy with the costs and quality of work. Since my socialized healthcare (through the VA) doesn't do even emergency dental it's starting to become a pressing issue if I want to save my teeth so why not?