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range isn't even a concern, make them charge in 10 mins please! I'd be fine having a car that can go ~100mi but can charge in a short time and have a battery th

by sabujp 8y ago

range isn't even a concern, make them charge in 10 mins please! I'd be fine having a car that can go ~100mi but can charge in a short time and have a battery that will hold those specs for at least 7 years

athenot 8y ago
In practice, I found charge time to be irrelevant as long as I can get it fully charged overnight. I didn't even bother installing a fast charger in my garage since the trickle charge was good enough for my needs. A longer range means you can forget to plug it in one evening and be fine. Or you can go on a longer day trip. For some reason many of us think we absolutely need to handle driving across the country; I'm sure some do but most of us don't. As a suburbanite who only occasionally travels long distance, this has not been an issue.
masklinn 8y ago
> range isn't even a concern, make them charge in 10 mins please! Range absolutely is a concern. I've pretty much no use for a car which only goes 100mi but don't mind overnight charging in the slightest. I'm waiting for EVs to do 600 miles on a charge at highway speed, with heating and/or AC.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  You're going to be waiting a long time. EVs do not perform well at highways speeds so your ask is ridiculous. A 600 mile range use-case is a boundary condition at best as there are few ICE vehicles that can even achieve that. EV aren't going to eliminate the need for ICE vehicles but they should easily be able to accommodate 90-95% of the market. The biggest barrier to EV adoption currently is people incorrectly thinking they need a 200-300 mile range since that's what their ICE vehicle currently gets. We're a two car family and when we got the Leaf it was initially my commuter car (~25 miles one way) but quickly became our primary vehicle. We still had an ICE vehicle that was also used as a commuter but we ceased using it almost entirely beyond that. Last fall we sold our ICE vehicle and bought another EV and our lives have been so much better for it. Our biggest concerns now are how to transport lumber home from the home center as we no longer have a junker.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    > You're going to be waiting a long time. EVs do not perform well at highways speeds so your ask is ridiculous. That means they don't perform period, ICE don't magically avoid aerodynamic drag. > A 600 mile range use-case is a boundary condition at best as there are few ICE vehicles that can even achieve that. Every ICE I've driven was able to achieve around that level. A 200~300mi range is what's ridiculous(ly low). The best car I've had could exceed 850 at 60~65mph.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      > That means they don't perform period, ICE don't magically avoid aerodynamic drag. It has more to do with the transmission. Most EVs are more aerodynamic than ICEVs but still suffer at high speeds because they lack a transmission and thus require more power to maintain high engine RPMs. An ICE in comparison has a transmission to reduce the RPMs at high speeds. > Every ICE I've driven was able to achieve around that level. That's fine but not everyone needs that range. On a daily basis most people do not travel more than 100 miles. Even the slowest L1 charger can put 60 miles of range on an EV overnight plugged into a regular outlet. An L2 charger using a 30a outlet, found in most laundry rooms, can do ~20 miles an hour. Every two car family where one person has a commute of less than 100 miles round trip would be just fine with an EV equivalent to a Nissan Leaf.
      - masklinn 8y ago
        > It has more to do with the transmission. Most EVs are more aerodynamic than ICEVs but still suffer at high speeds because they lack a transmission and thus require more power to maintain high engine RPMs. An ICE in comparison has a transmission to reduce the RPMs at high speeds. Still a distinction without a difference. > That's fine but not everyone needs that range. Of course not, I quite specifically mentioned that it was my specific requirement in the original comment. > Every two car family where one person has a commute of less than 100 miles round trip would be just fine with an EV equivalent to a Nissan Leaf. Good for you. A leaf still is of little use to me. Even if the infrastructure were in place, which it is not.
stetrain 8y ago
Generally the speed you can charge a battery pack falls off as you reach higher charge percentages. It's why a lot of manufacturers quote their fast charging times as charging to 60% or 80% not to 100%. That means that a great way to have a car that can charge quickly to ~100 miles is to give it a ~200mi battery pack. A Tesla Model 3 with the long range pack (310 miles rated range) can charge to 100 miles of range in under 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABvS9zfuiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABvS9zfuiI Edit: Here's another example of someone getting ~100 miles in 10 minutes: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-speed-116kw.107619/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-speed-1...
jsight 8y ago
Good news! You can get a Tesla Model 3 LR, pretend it is a 100 mile car (by never charging to more than ~40%), and charge to 100 miles in 10 minutes whenever it is depleted! This is a little tongue in cheek, of course, but my intent is to make the point that rate of charge and capacity are really related with current lithium ion technologies. This relationship is unlikely to change much over the next 10 years.

by sabujp 8y ago

athenot 8y ago

In practice, I found charge time to be irrelevant as long as I can get it fully charged overnight. I didn't even bother installing a fast charger in my garage since the trickle charge was good enough for my needs. A longer range means you can forget to plug it in one evening and be fine. Or you can go on a longer day trip. For some reason many of us think we absolutely need to handle driving across the country; I'm sure some do but most of us don't. As a suburbanite who only occasionally travels long distance, this has not been an issue.

masklinn 8y ago

> range isn't even a concern, make them charge in 10 mins please! Range absolutely is a concern. I've pretty much no use for a car which only goes 100mi but don't mind overnight charging in the slightest. I'm waiting for EVs to do 600 miles on a charge at highway speed, with heating and/or AC.

cptskippy 8y ago
You're going to be waiting a long time. EVs do not perform well at highways speeds so your ask is ridiculous. A 600 mile range use-case is a boundary condition at best as there are few ICE vehicles that can even achieve that. EV aren't going to eliminate the need for ICE vehicles but they should easily be able to accommodate 90-95% of the market. The biggest barrier to EV adoption currently is people incorrectly thinking they need a 200-300 mile range since that's what their ICE vehicle currently gets. We're a two car family and when we got the Leaf it was initially my commuter car (~25 miles one way) but quickly became our primary vehicle. We still had an ICE vehicle that was also used as a commuter but we ceased using it almost entirely beyond that. Last fall we sold our ICE vehicle and bought another EV and our lives have been so much better for it. Our biggest concerns now are how to transport lumber home from the home center as we no longer have a junker.
- masklinn 8y ago
  > You're going to be waiting a long time. EVs do not perform well at highways speeds so your ask is ridiculous. That means they don't perform period, ICE don't magically avoid aerodynamic drag. > A 600 mile range use-case is a boundary condition at best as there are few ICE vehicles that can even achieve that. Every ICE I've driven was able to achieve around that level. A 200~300mi range is what's ridiculous(ly low). The best car I've had could exceed 850 at 60~65mph.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    > That means they don't perform period, ICE don't magically avoid aerodynamic drag. It has more to do with the transmission. Most EVs are more aerodynamic than ICEVs but still suffer at high speeds because they lack a transmission and thus require more power to maintain high engine RPMs. An ICE in comparison has a transmission to reduce the RPMs at high speeds. > Every ICE I've driven was able to achieve around that level. That's fine but not everyone needs that range. On a daily basis most people do not travel more than 100 miles. Even the slowest L1 charger can put 60 miles of range on an EV overnight plugged into a regular outlet. An L2 charger using a 30a outlet, found in most laundry rooms, can do ~20 miles an hour. Every two car family where one person has a commute of less than 100 miles round trip would be just fine with an EV equivalent to a Nissan Leaf.
    - masklinn 8y ago
      > It has more to do with the transmission. Most EVs are more aerodynamic than ICEVs but still suffer at high speeds because they lack a transmission and thus require more power to maintain high engine RPMs. An ICE in comparison has a transmission to reduce the RPMs at high speeds. Still a distinction without a difference. > That's fine but not everyone needs that range. Of course not, I quite specifically mentioned that it was my specific requirement in the original comment. > Every two car family where one person has a commute of less than 100 miles round trip would be just fine with an EV equivalent to a Nissan Leaf. Good for you. A leaf still is of little use to me. Even if the infrastructure were in place, which it is not.

stetrain 8y ago

Generally the speed you can charge a battery pack falls off as you reach higher charge percentages. It's why a lot of manufacturers quote their fast charging times as charging to 60% or 80% not to 100%. That means that a great way to have a car that can charge quickly to ~100 miles is to give it a ~200mi battery pack. A Tesla Model 3 with the long range pack (310 miles rated range) can charge to 100 miles of range in under 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABvS9zfuiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABvS9zfuiI Edit: Here's another example of someone getting ~100 miles in 10 minutes: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-speed-116kw.107619/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-speed-1...

jsight 8y ago

Good news! You can get a Tesla Model 3 LR, pretend it is a 100 mile car (by never charging to more than ~40%), and charge to 100 miles in 10 minutes whenever it is depleted! This is a little tongue in cheek, of course, but my intent is to make the point that rate of charge and capacity are really related with current lithium ion technologies. This relationship is unlikely to change much over the next 10 years.