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I hope they're successful in getting TSA's ridiculous policy changed. One shouldn't have to choose between being unnecessarily irradiated and virtually strip-s

I hope they're successful in getting TSA's ridiculous policy changed. One shouldn't have to choose between being unnecessarily irradiated and virtually strip-searched or being sexually assaulted (in any other context, TSA's new pat-down procedures would be classified as criminal sexual conduct) just to ride on an airplane.

sp332 16y ago
It's just a normal pat-down, the kind that might be given by an officer of the law to someone reasonably suspected to be armed and dangerous. It's not like the pat-downs themselves are unusual, it's that the TSA doesn't have cause (or maybe even authority) to do these pat-downs. Also, it's not sexual, so it can't possibly be sexual assault. Assault or battery is about the most you could claim.
- barrkel 16y ago
  TSA agents aren't officers of the law. You might consider it non-sexual, but try asking a rape victim instead. I most certainly consider someone touching my private parts a sexual assault; and the fact that it's institutionalized doesn't make it any less a scandal. Don't be under any illusions; people who enjoy this kind of thing will see it as an interesting alternative career choice to school janitor etc. If the scanners become mandatory here in the UK for going to the US (they aren't on Virgin Atlantic flying out of Heathrow, last time I checked, a couple of weeks back), I'll probably have to quit my job, as I will no longer want to travel.
  - sp332 16y ago
    Yeah, that's what I meant when I said they might not have authority. But they have been delegated that authority by the DHS, which does have cabinet-level executive status. So it's arguable. It's interesting how you consider any interaction with your "private parts" to be sexual in nature. If you lean against a table, are you having sex with it? Are you having sex with your underwear right now?? The agent isn't touching you sexually, so it's not sexual assault.
    - sp4rki 16y ago
      If I lean against a table it's not sexual, but when the table grabs my balls it sure as hell is. What I find interesting is that you equate an inanimate object in contact with a sexual organ with a human being fondling your penis, vagina, or breasts. I honestly care less about the pats, if a dude or dudette wants to touch my balls and buttocks to make sure I'm not packing (pun intended), then go ahead. But to see them extend this same courtesy to grandmothers and little children is disgusting, unnecessary, and irresponsible.
      - sixtofour 16y ago
        An argument could be made, a really depressing argument in so many ways, that including children and grandmothers in the TSA's sexual assaults is for their protection, because if they were exempt, they could be targets for hiding contraband.
        sp4rki 16y ago
        But what happens when terrorist children shove explosives inside themselves through their anuses, or when terrorist grandma shoves a handgun inside her vagina? It's a very slippery slope to climb without a safety-line mate. The minimal increase in security this new procedures allows is just too small in contrast to the vast damage it does towards people's liberties and towards avoiding precedents that could influence some Big Brother type of behavior. This might sound awful, but a terrorist attack is most likely to be thwarted because some agents doing profiling decided to be extra careful with Muslims (and this is just an example, I'm not targeting Muslims in any way), than because we have xray machines that strip people naked.
        sixtofour 16y ago
        I'm not making the argument that I noted, I'm just pointing out that it fits within the twisted logic of our current situation. I agree with your points, and I don't feel any safer for the new procedures. Indeed, I feel less safe, because the TSA's efforts are misdirected, and the TSA has demonstrated its disdain for me, my rights and my dignity.
- sp4rki 16y ago
  The pat downs are sexual in nature because they are done by rubbing the palms against the persons body including the genitals and breasts on women. A police officer conducts this type of pat-down when a person is arrested or is in the process of being arrested or detained because there is a sufficient threat indicator. What the TSA is doing is saying that either you get irradiated and people get to see you naked, or you're a potential terrorist/criminal.

sp332 16y ago

It's just a normal pat-down, the kind that might be given by an officer of the law to someone reasonably suspected to be armed and dangerous. It's not like the pat-downs themselves are unusual, it's that the TSA doesn't have cause (or maybe even authority) to do these pat-downs. Also, it's not sexual, so it can't possibly be sexual assault. Assault or battery is about the most you could claim.

barrkel 16y ago
TSA agents aren't officers of the law. You might consider it non-sexual, but try asking a rape victim instead. I most certainly consider someone touching my private parts a sexual assault; and the fact that it's institutionalized doesn't make it any less a scandal. Don't be under any illusions; people who enjoy this kind of thing will see it as an interesting alternative career choice to school janitor etc. If the scanners become mandatory here in the UK for going to the US (they aren't on Virgin Atlantic flying out of Heathrow, last time I checked, a couple of weeks back), I'll probably have to quit my job, as I will no longer want to travel.
- sp332 16y ago
  Yeah, that's what I meant when I said they might not have authority. But they have been delegated that authority by the DHS, which does have cabinet-level executive status. So it's arguable. It's interesting how you consider any interaction with your "private parts" to be sexual in nature. If you lean against a table, are you having sex with it? Are you having sex with your underwear right now?? The agent isn't touching you sexually, so it's not sexual assault.
  - sp4rki 16y ago
    If I lean against a table it's not sexual, but when the table grabs my balls it sure as hell is. What I find interesting is that you equate an inanimate object in contact with a sexual organ with a human being fondling your penis, vagina, or breasts. I honestly care less about the pats, if a dude or dudette wants to touch my balls and buttocks to make sure I'm not packing (pun intended), then go ahead. But to see them extend this same courtesy to grandmothers and little children is disgusting, unnecessary, and irresponsible.
    - sixtofour 16y ago
      An argument could be made, a really depressing argument in so many ways, that including children and grandmothers in the TSA's sexual assaults is for their protection, because if they were exempt, they could be targets for hiding contraband.
      - sp4rki 16y ago
        But what happens when terrorist children shove explosives inside themselves through their anuses, or when terrorist grandma shoves a handgun inside her vagina? It's a very slippery slope to climb without a safety-line mate. The minimal increase in security this new procedures allows is just too small in contrast to the vast damage it does towards people's liberties and towards avoiding precedents that could influence some Big Brother type of behavior. This might sound awful, but a terrorist attack is most likely to be thwarted because some agents doing profiling decided to be extra careful with Muslims (and this is just an example, I'm not targeting Muslims in any way), than because we have xray machines that strip people naked.
        sixtofour 16y ago
        I'm not making the argument that I noted, I'm just pointing out that it fits within the twisted logic of our current situation. I agree with your points, and I don't feel any safer for the new procedures. Indeed, I feel less safe, because the TSA's efforts are misdirected, and the TSA has demonstrated its disdain for me, my rights and my dignity.
sp4rki 16y ago
The pat downs are sexual in nature because they are done by rubbing the palms against the persons body including the genitals and breasts on women. A police officer conducts this type of pat-down when a person is arrested or is in the process of being arrested or detained because there is a sufficient threat indicator. What the TSA is doing is saying that either you get irradiated and people get to see you naked, or you're a potential terrorist/criminal.