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It's worth considering the industry factors that contributed to this. Sub-editors and fact-checkers have been the first to go in the cataclysmic waves of layoff

It's worth considering the industry factors that contributed to this. Sub-editors and fact-checkers have been the first to go in the cataclysmic waves of layoffs journalism has been weathering for the past decade.

darkpuma 8y ago
Der Spiegel was famed for their fact checking... with one problem. Their fact checkers evidently started with the assumption that their journalists weren't being deliberately deceptive. This combined with the journalist making up shit that flattered the preconceived cultural biases of the fact checkers (e.g. urban germans think that rural americans are backwards gun-toting hicks who believe the earth is flat) and it becomes clear that understaffing wasn't the real problem. Actually there was another problem at Der Spiegel, cultural again; anybody who questioned the rockstars had their career thrown on the rocks. When Juan Moreno questioned the integrity of the fraud Class Relotius, Der Spiegel's editors didn't believe him, and thought he was just jealous of Relotius. So again, not a problem caused by understaffing.
- gerbilly 8y ago
  >Their fact checkers evidently started with the assumption that their journalists weren't being deliberately deceptive. People reviewing pull requests at our company also have to assume that programmers aren't being deliberately deceptive. So what? Almost all of our working relationship, heck relationships period, are based on trust.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    > "So what?" Do you really need me to answer this for you? Did you miss the part where it failed in spectacular fashion and will haunt Der Spiegel's reputation for years to come? Not to mention god knows how many innocent people were defamed by this fraud over the years he was allowed to run wild by Der Spiegel's fact checkers. This guy was publishing "too good to be true" articles for years and none of Der Spiegel's famed fact checkers noticed it. He was eventually uncovered by another reporter, not a fact checker, so to suggest that understaffing in the fact checking department is to blame is farcical.
    - gerbilly 8y ago
      Yeah it's bad. But the fact that we are talking about 'this guy' and not hundreds of people means it's not as widespread as you might think. It's impossible to defend against, you have to trust your coworkers, or we'd be living in a police state where nothing can get done. And yes I know of the other high profile cases at the NyTimes NewYorker etc.
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        The issue of contention was whether or not understaffing of fact checking departments is the cause of diminished trust in the news industry. I think I've refuted that hypothesis; we've got a newspaper famed for their fact checking department that has taken a hit to their credibility more severe than most other publications.
        gerbilly 8y ago
        > The issue of contention was whether or not understaffing of fact checking departments is the cause of diminished trust in the news industry. Sure, but people distrust things for irrational reasons all the time.

darkpuma 8y ago

Der Spiegel was famed for their fact checking... with one problem. Their fact checkers evidently started with the assumption that their journalists weren't being deliberately deceptive. This combined with the journalist making up shit that flattered the preconceived cultural biases of the fact checkers (e.g. urban germans think that rural americans are backwards gun-toting hicks who believe the earth is flat) and it becomes clear that understaffing wasn't the real problem. Actually there was another problem at Der Spiegel, cultural again; anybody who questioned the rockstars had their career thrown on the rocks. When Juan Moreno questioned the integrity of the fraud Class Relotius, Der Spiegel's editors didn't believe him, and thought he was just jealous of Relotius. So again, not a problem caused by understaffing.

gerbilly 8y ago
>Their fact checkers evidently started with the assumption that their journalists weren't being deliberately deceptive. People reviewing pull requests at our company also have to assume that programmers aren't being deliberately deceptive. So what? Almost all of our working relationship, heck relationships period, are based on trust.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > "So what?" Do you really need me to answer this for you? Did you miss the part where it failed in spectacular fashion and will haunt Der Spiegel's reputation for years to come? Not to mention god knows how many innocent people were defamed by this fraud over the years he was allowed to run wild by Der Spiegel's fact checkers. This guy was publishing "too good to be true" articles for years and none of Der Spiegel's famed fact checkers noticed it. He was eventually uncovered by another reporter, not a fact checker, so to suggest that understaffing in the fact checking department is to blame is farcical.
  - gerbilly 8y ago
    Yeah it's bad. But the fact that we are talking about 'this guy' and not hundreds of people means it's not as widespread as you might think. It's impossible to defend against, you have to trust your coworkers, or we'd be living in a police state where nothing can get done. And yes I know of the other high profile cases at the NyTimes NewYorker etc.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      The issue of contention was whether or not understaffing of fact checking departments is the cause of diminished trust in the news industry. I think I've refuted that hypothesis; we've got a newspaper famed for their fact checking department that has taken a hit to their credibility more severe than most other publications.
      - gerbilly 8y ago
        > The issue of contention was whether or not understaffing of fact checking departments is the cause of diminished trust in the news industry. Sure, but people distrust things for irrational reasons all the time.