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Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its con

by enneff 8y ago

Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). You're drawing a long bow. It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer and there's nothing else quite like it. The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rolex watches don't even keep good time. They're overpriced jewellery. The Cirklon is not even expensive for what it is.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
laumars 8y ago
> Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". Technically it does. In the very literal sense. Perhaps what you meant to say is that this is more than just a MIDI controller? In which case I'm still waiting for you to example how (without referencing "build quality", which was never in dispute). > In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). VC is just what people used before MIDI was a thing. Does anyone actually still use VC or does this device just support it for compatibility with 40+ year old hardware? In any case, citing VC as a reason it's not a MIDI controller isn't a hugely convincing argument given the two are equatable and MIDI superseded VC decades ago. > It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer Personally I'd still class that as part of the built quality if you're just listing off qualities like "elegant". But I will concede that there is a lot of profession gear out there with software that would make most techies scratch their head in confusion. > and there's nothing else quite like it. But what is it about that sequencer that is so unique? I’ve not played on that device so happy to take your word for it if you had but from what I’ve seen on their blurb it doesn't sound like it offers anything I wasn't already doing on my Atari ST in the 90s - let alone any of the hardware I've owned since. Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I fully embrace people buying nice hardware if want. And I agree that 1.5k isn't significant for high end gear. But my point was that you can accomplish the same thing for a fraction of the price (with no dip in sound quality either) if you're not fussed about build quality. You claim you couldn't - and you might be right about that. But whenever you're pressed to give examples you just keep coming back to build quality, which was the one thing that was never in question. > The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rolex watches don't even keep good time. They're overpriced jewellery. I don’t buy watches so you’d have to excuse my ignorance there but I do feel you’ve completely missed the point of what an “analogy” is meant to be (ie they’re not a literal like for like in ever detail).
- DanBC 8y ago
  Can you show me a device like cirklon that's a fraction of the price?
  - laumars 8y ago
    I'm still trying to gather what the Cirklon is by the sounds of it but you can pick up hardware sequencers for under a grand (eg BeatStep Pro - if performance is more your angle. Or Maschine Studio if you want something a little more complete). For 1.5k you could probably get sequencers with in-built voices too (albeit this isn't something that's interested me much) which I don't think the Cirklon offers? You could also go down the software route - which i know is a dirty word to hardware enthusiasts but you would pick up your choice of sequencer for £200 or less. Obviously you do then need to buy computer (if you don't have one already), a "proper" sound card / USB interface etc (these don't need to be expensive either, but you do want to avoid Creative and other mass consumer gear. Software wise, maybe even go with Propellerheads Reason if you wanted that hardware feel? What I've recently started getting into is using my ST (which is why I've mentioned it a few times). It isn't without it's issues and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to other people but I'm a nerd and it's fun. Plus it's gotten me back into producing music again. However I will openly admit that not having used the Cirklon, I might have missed some killer feature. And this is what I'm asking. Aside build quality, which is it that sets Cirklon apart?
- enneff 8y ago
  > But whenever you're pressed to give examples you just keep coming back to build quality, which was the one thing that was never in question. Huh? This is the first time I've been asked to give any examples. The build quality is fantastic, but it's the workflow (the interface design) that makes the Cirklon special (and so sought-after). There are plenty of other sequencers that can get you the same result, but music is all about the process of getting there. > VC is just what people used before MIDI was a thing. You should look at what's happening in the modular (specifically Eurorack) scene. Control voltage is back, with a vengeance. Most Cirklon users I know primarily use its CV interface. It seems like you're just really out of touch. Look up some reviews or youtube videos if you want to learn more. > I'm not trying to be argumentative here. You're failing ;-)

by enneff 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

laumars 8y ago

> Just because it can send MIDI messages does not make it a "MIDI controller". Technically it does. In the very literal sense. Perhaps what you meant to say is that this is more than just a MIDI controller? In which case I'm still waiting for you to example how (without referencing "build quality", which was never in dispute). > In fact, you can use it entirely without sending MIDI messages at all (with its control voltage interface). VC is just what people used before MIDI was a thing. Does anyone actually still use VC or does this device just support it for compatibility with 40+ year old hardware? In any case, citing VC as a reason it's not a MIDI controller isn't a hugely convincing argument given the two are equatable and MIDI superseded VC decades ago. > It's not just about the build quality. It's about the interface. It's a very elegant and thoughtfully designed sequencer Personally I'd still class that as part of the built quality if you're just listing off qualities like "elegant". But I will concede that there is a lot of profession gear out there with software that would make most techies scratch their head in confusion. > and there's nothing else quite like it. But what is it about that sequencer that is so unique? I’ve not played on that device so happy to take your word for it if you had but from what I’ve seen on their blurb it doesn't sound like it offers anything I wasn't already doing on my Atari ST in the 90s - let alone any of the hardware I've owned since. Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I fully embrace people buying nice hardware if want. And I agree that 1.5k isn't significant for high end gear. But my point was that you can accomplish the same thing for a fraction of the price (with no dip in sound quality either) if you're not fussed about build quality. You claim you couldn't - and you might be right about that. But whenever you're pressed to give examples you just keep coming back to build quality, which was the one thing that was never in question. > The Rolex comparison is ridiculous, because Rolex watches don't even keep good time. They're overpriced jewellery. I don’t buy watches so you’d have to excuse my ignorance there but I do feel you’ve completely missed the point of what an “analogy” is meant to be (ie they’re not a literal like for like in ever detail).

DanBC 8y ago
Can you show me a device like cirklon that's a fraction of the price?
- laumars 8y ago
  I'm still trying to gather what the Cirklon is by the sounds of it but you can pick up hardware sequencers for under a grand (eg BeatStep Pro - if performance is more your angle. Or Maschine Studio if you want something a little more complete). For 1.5k you could probably get sequencers with in-built voices too (albeit this isn't something that's interested me much) which I don't think the Cirklon offers? You could also go down the software route - which i know is a dirty word to hardware enthusiasts but you would pick up your choice of sequencer for £200 or less. Obviously you do then need to buy computer (if you don't have one already), a "proper" sound card / USB interface etc (these don't need to be expensive either, but you do want to avoid Creative and other mass consumer gear. Software wise, maybe even go with Propellerheads Reason if you wanted that hardware feel? What I've recently started getting into is using my ST (which is why I've mentioned it a few times). It isn't without it's issues and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to other people but I'm a nerd and it's fun. Plus it's gotten me back into producing music again. However I will openly admit that not having used the Cirklon, I might have missed some killer feature. And this is what I'm asking. Aside build quality, which is it that sets Cirklon apart?
enneff 8y ago
> But whenever you're pressed to give examples you just keep coming back to build quality, which was the one thing that was never in question. Huh? This is the first time I've been asked to give any examples. The build quality is fantastic, but it's the workflow (the interface design) that makes the Cirklon special (and so sought-after). There are plenty of other sequencers that can get you the same result, but music is all about the process of getting there. > VC is just what people used before MIDI was a thing. You should look at what's happening in the modular (specifically Eurorack) scene. Control voltage is back, with a vengeance. Most Cirklon users I know primarily use its CV interface. It seems like you're just really out of touch. Look up some reviews or youtube videos if you want to learn more. > I'm not trying to be argumentative here. You're failing ;-)