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This ignores all research already done on the brain and nutrition, and also common sense. On Common Sense: The human brain/body evolved to run on minimal gluc

by robchez 16y ago

This ignores all research already done on the brain and nutrition, and also common sense. On Common Sense: The human brain/body evolved to run on minimal glucose. Of the past 2million years of human evolution, only 10,000(from the agrarian revolution) of those years have we consumed excess carbohydrates in the forms of grains etc. Prior to that we were hunter gatherers and ate copious amounts of fat and meat with some vegetables (very low in carbohydrates) and every now and then fruits when they were in season. We also didnt have the luxury of eating as soon as we woke up, we had to hunt for our food, so missing breakfast would have happened more times than not. Again our bodies adapted to that. On All Research: As mentioned in comments below our bodies run perfectly well in states of ketosis. With ketone-bodies providing a much more efficient longer energy burn than carbohydrates. (Think of carbohydrates as kindling and ketones as the logs). Many athletes (particularly the CrossFit athletes) run on ketogenic diets and get better performance. Here are some papers/articles etc. I dug up quickly, but there are many more. [1] Your brain on ketones [2] Weston price Foundation, Lots of references [3] Ketogenic Diets and Physical Performance [4] The metabolic effects of low-carbohydrate diets and incorporation into a biochemistry course [5] Report picking apart the latest dietry guidelines. [1] http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/08/your-brain-on-ketones.html http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/08/your-brai... [2] http://www.westonaprice.org/ http://www.westonaprice.org/ [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524027/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524027/ [4] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bmb.2005.494033022445/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bmb.2005.49403302... [5] http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/PIIS0899900710002893/fulltext http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/PIIS0899900710002893/fu... edit: formatting

anon-e-moose 16y ago
Very interesting. However, the time frame doesn't work in this example, those studies showed reduced performance for a week, and then back to baseline or slightly above.
- robchez 16y ago
  You are right, for the first week or two, your do feel like crap. As your body switches to using ketone bodies as energy, you go through a real down phase. However when you come out, you feel great. Anecdotally (I hate anecdotes about health, but argh) I used to need to eat constantly to keep my energy up. I'd have breakfast, and by the time lunch came around I had to eat, or face passing out. These days I can skip breakfast (or just have a coffee with lots of cream) and that will keep my going until 2-3pm where I will have a lunch. You have no idea how liberating it is not to always be thinking about food.
  - anon-e-moose 16y ago
    So I've read 1,4, and 5 now, and found them wildly interesting. One begins to get a picture of a protein and fat focused paleo diet, providing great endurance, and our modern and reccommended carb focused diet as a serious kludge.
    - robchez 16y ago
      It really is an eye opener. I was blown away when I started reading about it all. Some good resources if you're interested. [1] Marks Daily Apple (Website and forum a wealth of information) [2] Nora Gedgautis Book Primal Body Primal Mind [3] Robb Wolfs The Paleo Solution Book [4] PaleoNu - A doctor who pushes a paleo style diet. [1] http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ [2] http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/ http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/ [3] http://www.robbwolf.com http://www.robbwolf.com [4] http://www.paleonu.com/ http://www.paleonu.com/
      - Evgeny 16y ago
        It really is an eye opener. I was blown away when I started reading about it all. Some good resources if you're interested. I totally agree to that. Those sources changed the way I was thinking about human health and nutrition completely. To be quite honest, I was not thinking about these topics very much before. I would also add a source that kind of got me started: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ Stephan appears to be a very knowledgeable guy, he is probably the least "radical" in his approaches, writes on a variety of topics and is not afraid to change his opinions when faced with contradicting evidence. Also, blog of Dr. Mike Eades http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ and Hyperlipid http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/
brandnewlow 16y ago
I've dropped about 16 lbs and feel great on a diet like this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1884270 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1884270
chancho 16y ago
This is a great comment and I appreciate the links. But the caveman explanation for health and nutrition always leaves me cold. Yeah ok we can pretty much gauge what proto-humans ate and why it was good for them, but what if it made them miserable? It's romantic to think that early humans lived in the garden of lo-carb eden, but what if it really fucking sucked? What if they were just plain hugnry all the time, it was miserable and only the strong survived? Don't get me wrong I think most of the conclusions are right, but I prefer evidence collected from modern people to justify those conclusions. Appealing to evolutionary biology is only valid for survival and reproduction. It doesn't say anything about happiness, fulfillment, etc. I seem to recall some crackpot theory that low-calorie diets (ie., borderline starvation) increase your lifespan. That would certainly jive with the caveman hypothesis, but does it sound like fun? How miserable are we willing to make ourselves for a few extra years in a nursing home? That's probably a false dichotomy, but you get the point.
- Evgeny 16y ago
  What if they were just plain hugnry all the time, it was miserable and only the strong survived? I think the point is that regardles of being miserable, hungry or happy, the bodies adapted to the circumstances. Now what happens if you take the body that is best adapted to being hungry for periods of time and place it in the limitless food environment? Chances are that you will get a very happy and a very overweight person, with a shortened lifespan. That would certainly jive with the caveman hypothesis, but does it sound like fun? How miserable are we willing to make ourselves for a few extra years in a nursing home? I think that's a good point and not quite a false dichotomy. There probably are not enough studies to confidently state that "reducing calories by X% lengthens lifespan by Y%" but if the choice is "eat everything that will make me happy" and "be alive from my 80th to 85th birthday", different people would make different choices.
  - jamii 16y ago
    We became optimized for the environment we were in. Thats not the same thing as saying that that environment is optimal for us. We adapted to being cold and wet but chucking out your clothes and umbrella wont make you healthier. Always remember - poison ivy is natural, pants aren't.

by robchez 16y ago

anon-e-moose 16y ago

Very interesting. However, the time frame doesn't work in this example, those studies showed reduced performance for a week, and then back to baseline or slightly above.

robchez 16y ago
You are right, for the first week or two, your do feel like crap. As your body switches to using ketone bodies as energy, you go through a real down phase. However when you come out, you feel great. Anecdotally (I hate anecdotes about health, but argh) I used to need to eat constantly to keep my energy up. I'd have breakfast, and by the time lunch came around I had to eat, or face passing out. These days I can skip breakfast (or just have a coffee with lots of cream) and that will keep my going until 2-3pm where I will have a lunch. You have no idea how liberating it is not to always be thinking about food.
- anon-e-moose 16y ago
  So I've read 1,4, and 5 now, and found them wildly interesting. One begins to get a picture of a protein and fat focused paleo diet, providing great endurance, and our modern and reccommended carb focused diet as a serious kludge.
  - robchez 16y ago
    It really is an eye opener. I was blown away when I started reading about it all. Some good resources if you're interested. [1] Marks Daily Apple (Website and forum a wealth of information) [2] Nora Gedgautis Book Primal Body Primal Mind [3] Robb Wolfs The Paleo Solution Book [4] PaleoNu - A doctor who pushes a paleo style diet. [1] http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ [2] http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/ http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/ [3] http://www.robbwolf.com http://www.robbwolf.com [4] http://www.paleonu.com/ http://www.paleonu.com/
    - Evgeny 16y ago
      It really is an eye opener. I was blown away when I started reading about it all. Some good resources if you're interested. I totally agree to that. Those sources changed the way I was thinking about human health and nutrition completely. To be quite honest, I was not thinking about these topics very much before. I would also add a source that kind of got me started: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ Stephan appears to be a very knowledgeable guy, he is probably the least "radical" in his approaches, writes on a variety of topics and is not afraid to change his opinions when faced with contradicting evidence. Also, blog of Dr. Mike Eades http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ and Hyperlipid http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

brandnewlow 16y ago

I've dropped about 16 lbs and feel great on a diet like this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1884270 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1884270

chancho 16y ago

This is a great comment and I appreciate the links. But the caveman explanation for health and nutrition always leaves me cold. Yeah ok we can pretty much gauge what proto-humans ate and why it was good for them, but what if it made them miserable? It's romantic to think that early humans lived in the garden of lo-carb eden, but what if it really fucking sucked? What if they were just plain hugnry all the time, it was miserable and only the strong survived? Don't get me wrong I think most of the conclusions are right, but I prefer evidence collected from modern people to justify those conclusions. Appealing to evolutionary biology is only valid for survival and reproduction. It doesn't say anything about happiness, fulfillment, etc. I seem to recall some crackpot theory that low-calorie diets (ie., borderline starvation) increase your lifespan. That would certainly jive with the caveman hypothesis, but does it sound like fun? How miserable are we willing to make ourselves for a few extra years in a nursing home? That's probably a false dichotomy, but you get the point.

Evgeny 16y ago
What if they were just plain hugnry all the time, it was miserable and only the strong survived? I think the point is that regardles of being miserable, hungry or happy, the bodies adapted to the circumstances. Now what happens if you take the body that is best adapted to being hungry for periods of time and place it in the limitless food environment? Chances are that you will get a very happy and a very overweight person, with a shortened lifespan. That would certainly jive with the caveman hypothesis, but does it sound like fun? How miserable are we willing to make ourselves for a few extra years in a nursing home? I think that's a good point and not quite a false dichotomy. There probably are not enough studies to confidently state that "reducing calories by X% lengthens lifespan by Y%" but if the choice is "eat everything that will make me happy" and "be alive from my 80th to 85th birthday", different people would make different choices.
- jamii 16y ago
  We became optimized for the environment we were in. Thats not the same thing as saying that that environment is optimal for us. We adapted to being cold and wet but chucking out your clothes and umbrella wont make you healthier. Always remember - poison ivy is natural, pants aren't.