3 ms·

I watched it and it doesn't means anything, they said it has lower APM than a human, but what an APM means for a computer anyway? APM is just a way of mesuring

by Thaxll 8y ago

I watched it and it doesn't means anything, they said it has lower APM than a human, but what an APM means for a computer anyway? APM is just a way of mesuring how fast you click on a mice / keyboard, but the descion making is not related to the APM speed. My point is it could click 10x slower than a human and still out beat it at macro. The real issue I have here is the game can be won by just outplaying the other at macro. Edit: They actually say exactly what I just said: These results suggest that AlphaStar’s success against MaNa and TLO was in fact due to superior macro and micro-strategic decision-making, rather than superior click-rate, faster reaction times, or the raw interface. It feels like bruteforce not really AI, that's my point. If a computer knows everything about the game ( mvmt speed, projectile speed, ect ... ) how it is you call it smart where it's just computing power to know when to engage and when not.

aerovistae 8y ago
....but.....but...that's EXACTLY the challenge of RTS games.....no AI has been able to beat a human at macro until now. That's the whole point... > was in fact due to superior macro and micro-strategic decision-making That's exactly the crux of the accomplishment! How are you writing this off as not impressive?! Like, what exactly do you want the AI to be able to do if not win by superior strategic decision-making?? > how can you call it smart when it's just computing power to know when to engage and when not. But it ISN'T just computing power, any more than AlphaGo was. If it was, then they would have already done this years ago, wouldn't they? Anyone could just rent some servers off AWS and do it. it isn't even remotely that simple. It's a major work of algorithmic innovation, and you don't seem to understand that.
- b_tterc_p 8y ago
  GP has it backwards. The Ai won on micro, not macro. Computer apm is not the same as human apm. Humans have numerous unnecessary actions, whereas computers don’t. This is visible just watching the game. Computer dominated on micro. When the computer lost, it was because it failed to cope with a basic macro curveball

by Thaxll 8y ago

aerovistae 8y ago

....but.....but...that's EXACTLY the challenge of RTS games.....no AI has been able to beat a human at macro until now. That's the whole point... > was in fact due to superior macro and micro-strategic decision-making That's exactly the crux of the accomplishment! How are you writing this off as not impressive?! Like, what exactly do you want the AI to be able to do if not win by superior strategic decision-making?? > how can you call it smart when it's just computing power to know when to engage and when not. But it ISN'T just computing power, any more than AlphaGo was. If it was, then they would have already done this years ago, wouldn't they? Anyone could just rent some servers off AWS and do it. it isn't even remotely that simple. It's a major work of algorithmic innovation, and you don't seem to understand that.

b_tterc_p 8y ago
GP has it backwards. The Ai won on micro, not macro. Computer apm is not the same as human apm. Humans have numerous unnecessary actions, whereas computers don’t. This is visible just watching the game. Computer dominated on micro. When the computer lost, it was because it failed to cope with a basic macro curveball