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It is a little disappointing that Mana's win was achieved in part by simply exploiting Alphastar's poor response to the immortal drops by doing it over and over

by dllu 8y ago

It is a little disappointing that Mana's win was achieved in part by simply exploiting Alphastar's poor response to the immortal drops by doing it over and over again. In contrast, Lee Sedol's win versus AlphaGo involved profound strategy and a particularly inspired "divine move" that humans get to brag about.

larkeith 8y ago
On the one hand, it feels a bit cheap. On the other, getting ahead due to micro but losing due to lack of pattern recognition and problem solving seems like a rather complete demonstration of both the strengths and weaknesses of current AI.
asar 8y ago
I agree that this makes Lee Sedol's one win against AlphaGo even more impressive. But deepmind also felt ready to host this event and it chose European pros to compete with not Asian pros, who arguably have better micro and innovate a lot of the new meta.
- dllu 8y ago
  TLO is to Starcraft* as Fan Hui is to Go. They are strong players but not the best. I am guessing that Deepmind knows that the strength of their bot isn't ready to take on the very top players, and wanted to show off against a well-known personality in the Starcraft II scene. Incidentally, though, the strongest Starcraft II player currently is arguably Serral [1], who is Finnish. He beat the strongest Korean players to win the WCS World Championship last year. [1] https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Serral https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Serral * at least TLO's skill level when offracing as Protoss. His main race, Zerg, is very strong, ranked around 70-80th in the world.
Recursing 8y ago
Lee Sedol "divine move" actually doesn't work, even human top players would have punished it. It actually was just a really weird mistake in AlphaGo
- asar 8y ago
  Thanks for clarifying that, never really got that that deep into Go.
- dllu 8y ago
  As they say... there are no good moves in Go/chess/zero-sum games etc. There are only bad moves. That doesn't prevent professional players such as Gu Li 9p from describing it as a divine move though. And it does feel good for Team Humanity.

by dllu 8y ago

larkeith 8y ago

On the one hand, it feels a bit cheap. On the other, getting ahead due to micro but losing due to lack of pattern recognition and problem solving seems like a rather complete demonstration of both the strengths and weaknesses of current AI.

asar 8y ago

I agree that this makes Lee Sedol's one win against AlphaGo even more impressive. But deepmind also felt ready to host this event and it chose European pros to compete with not Asian pros, who arguably have better micro and innovate a lot of the new meta.

dllu 8y ago
TLO is to Starcraft* as Fan Hui is to Go. They are strong players but not the best. I am guessing that Deepmind knows that the strength of their bot isn't ready to take on the very top players, and wanted to show off against a well-known personality in the Starcraft II scene. Incidentally, though, the strongest Starcraft II player currently is arguably Serral [1], who is Finnish. He beat the strongest Korean players to win the WCS World Championship last year. [1] https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Serral https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Serral * at least TLO's skill level when offracing as Protoss. His main race, Zerg, is very strong, ranked around 70-80th in the world.

Recursing 8y ago

Lee Sedol "divine move" actually doesn't work, even human top players would have punished it. It actually was just a really weird mistake in AlphaGo

asar 8y ago
Thanks for clarifying that, never really got that that deep into Go.
dllu 8y ago
As they say... there are no good moves in Go/chess/zero-sum games etc. There are only bad moves. That doesn't prevent professional players such as Gu Li 9p from describing it as a divine move though. And it does feel good for Team Humanity.