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All those online signatures "click to sign" services are useless anyway, they have absolutely no legal value anywhere (their EIDAS/ETSI whatever are just buzzwo

All those online signatures "click to sign" services are useless anyway, they have absolutely no legal value anywhere (their EIDAS/ETSI whatever are just buzzwords), even in France from where docusign is coming. https://www.cryptomathic.com/news-events/blog/us-court-rejects-docusign-e-signatures-as-method-to-provide-digital-authorization https://www.cryptomathic.com/news-events/blog/us-court-rejec...

kevindong 8y ago
That article is pretty clear that the docusigned documents were invalid due to that specific court's rules. To quote from the ruling [0] directly: > Although DocuSign affixations and other software-generated electronic signatures may have a place in certain commercial and other transactions, they do not have a place as substitutes for wet signatures on a bankruptcy petition, schedules, statements, and other documents filed with the court, and they do not comply with this court’s local rule. [0] (see page 7) : http://www.caeb.uscourts.gov/documents/Judges/Opinions/Local/Mayfield-ForWebsite.pdf?dt=202716160 http://www.caeb.uscourts.gov/documents/Judges/Opinions/Local...
- DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
  A real solution is a proper PKI - a great way forward would be if the US federal government issued citizens with X.509 digital certificates when they get their passport renewed: they’ve done the task of verifying identity, they just need to co-sign a cert and give people $5 smart cards with their $100 passports. With state-sponsored PKI we can eliminate so many headaches and rockblocks in the digital economy and paperless government.
  - anitil 8y ago
    Given the whole SSN debacle and the low passport ownership in the US, I see this as functionally impossible.
jlbooker 8y ago
In North Carolina, the "Click to Sign" services (such as DocuSign) must be licensed/approved by the North Carolina Department of the Secretary of State. An electronic signature from a licensed provider is just as good as a paper signature. They certainly have legal value and are used for real estate closing and the like. NB: HelloSign, the other provider that's come up in the comments here, is not on the Secretary of State's list and is therefore worthless in North Carolina (and they're possibly in violation of the law for offering such services without seeking approval). Secretary of State page listing approved providers (including DocuSign): https://www.sosnc.gov/divisions/notary/e_notary_solution_providers https://www.sosnc.gov/divisions/notary/e_notary_solution_pro... Electronic signatures are the same as paper signatures: https://www.smithdebnamlaw.com/2015/05/electronic-signatures-same-as-paper-in-north-carolina/ https://www.smithdebnamlaw.com/2015/05/electronic-signatures... Relevant North Carolina General Statute: https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_66/Article_40.pdf https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArti...

kevindong 8y ago

That article is pretty clear that the docusigned documents were invalid due to that specific court's rules. To quote from the ruling [0] directly: > Although DocuSign affixations and other software-generated electronic signatures may have a place in certain commercial and other transactions, they do not have a place as substitutes for wet signatures on a bankruptcy petition, schedules, statements, and other documents filed with the court, and they do not comply with this court’s local rule. [0] (see page 7) : http://www.caeb.uscourts.gov/documents/Judges/Opinions/Local/Mayfield-ForWebsite.pdf?dt=202716160 http://www.caeb.uscourts.gov/documents/Judges/Opinions/Local...

DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
A real solution is a proper PKI - a great way forward would be if the US federal government issued citizens with X.509 digital certificates when they get their passport renewed: they’ve done the task of verifying identity, they just need to co-sign a cert and give people $5 smart cards with their $100 passports. With state-sponsored PKI we can eliminate so many headaches and rockblocks in the digital economy and paperless government.
- anitil 8y ago
  Given the whole SSN debacle and the low passport ownership in the US, I see this as functionally impossible.

jlbooker 8y ago

In North Carolina, the "Click to Sign" services (such as DocuSign) must be licensed/approved by the North Carolina Department of the Secretary of State. An electronic signature from a licensed provider is just as good as a paper signature. They certainly have legal value and are used for real estate closing and the like. NB: HelloSign, the other provider that's come up in the comments here, is not on the Secretary of State's list and is therefore worthless in North Carolina (and they're possibly in violation of the law for offering such services without seeking approval). Secretary of State page listing approved providers (including DocuSign): https://www.sosnc.gov/divisions/notary/e_notary_solution_providers https://www.sosnc.gov/divisions/notary/e_notary_solution_pro... Electronic signatures are the same as paper signatures: https://www.smithdebnamlaw.com/2015/05/electronic-signatures-same-as-paper-in-north-carolina/ https://www.smithdebnamlaw.com/2015/05/electronic-signatures... Relevant North Carolina General Statute: https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_66/Article_40.pdf https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArti...