4 ms·

What's AlphaStar's APM. Can it just move every single unit perfectly in a single frame?

aurelwu 8y ago
it's not perfect but definitely superhuman from what I see. These are demonstration matches and afaik they want to tune the "mechanical" abilities of the agents to be somewhat in the realm of the strongest human players but it's not a trivial thing as not every action is equal and just picking a APM number would make the AI way weaker than a human in some areas (splitting marines, building/morphing lots of units ) and way stronger in other areas (multitasking)
samfriedman 8y ago
Commentator just mentioned that the APM they've observed from AlphaStar is comparable to pro players.
- Buttons840 8y ago
  Yeah, in game 4 vs Mana the commentators mentioned there are APM limitations to keep the APM within the realm of human possibility, but the decision making and multitasking are beyond even the best players. "There is not a pro in the world that can control stalkers that way" said Artosis (a commentator).
- nightcracker 8y ago
  It really isn't. Human APM is inflated and isn't true APM, humans spam click, repeat actions, make pointless actions a lot, etc. A human can have 300 APM but only make one true action per second. DeepMind never missclicks, doesn't have to move the mouse or fingers, never spamclicks, doesn't make pointless actions, so its APM isn't inflated. I do believe that with this progress AlphaStar with more training could beat humans even with a more realistic APM limit.
deleted 8y ago
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pimmen 8y ago
They gimp the AI to a human level APM because they want to win through superior strategy not through 30 000 APMs.
pbalau 8y ago
They said the capped the APM, so the game is fair from this point of view. They also said that while the agent can see the entire map, it mostly uses local views of sort. I assume because moving the camera costs actions.
Veedrac 8y ago
https://youtu.be/cUTMhmVh1qs?t=3218 https://youtu.be/cUTMhmVh1qs?t=3218

it's not perfect but definitely superhuman from what I see. These are demonstration matches and afaik they want to tune the "mechanical" abilities of the agents to be somewhat in the realm of the strongest human players but it's not a trivial thing as not every action is equal and just picking a APM number would make the AI way weaker than a human in some areas (splitting marines, building/morphing lots of units ) and way stronger in other areas (multitasking)

samfriedman 8y ago

Commentator just mentioned that the APM they've observed from AlphaStar is comparable to pro players.

Buttons840 8y ago
Yeah, in game 4 vs Mana the commentators mentioned there are APM limitations to keep the APM within the realm of human possibility, but the decision making and multitasking are beyond even the best players. "There is not a pro in the world that can control stalkers that way" said Artosis (a commentator).
nightcracker 8y ago
It really isn't. Human APM is inflated and isn't true APM, humans spam click, repeat actions, make pointless actions a lot, etc. A human can have 300 APM but only make one true action per second. DeepMind never missclicks, doesn't have to move the mouse or fingers, never spamclicks, doesn't make pointless actions, so its APM isn't inflated. I do believe that with this progress AlphaStar with more training could beat humans even with a more realistic APM limit.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pimmen 8y ago

They gimp the AI to a human level APM because they want to win through superior strategy not through 30 000 APMs.

pbalau 8y ago

They said the capped the APM, so the game is fair from this point of view. They also said that while the agent can see the entire map, it mostly uses local views of sort. I assume because moving the camera costs actions.

Veedrac 8y ago

https://youtu.be/cUTMhmVh1qs?t=3218 https://youtu.be/cUTMhmVh1qs?t=3218