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Or carry a dumb/flip phone. Off topic...I recently ran into my high school chemistry teacher at Costco this weekend and he said he lost his passion to teach be

Or carry a dumb/flip phone. Off topic...I recently ran into my high school chemistry teacher at Costco this weekend and he said he lost his passion to teach because school do not enforce their "no phone" policy due to litigious parents. He said the students are constantly distracted by their smart phones. On the drive home I was thinking...why can't schools encourage students to carry dumb/flip phones for emergencies?!

bilbo0s 8y ago
A little further off topic, but can people really sue because a teacher tells their kid not to use their phone in class? That seems counter-productive.
- bluGill 8y ago
  You can sue for anything. you might not win, but it still costs them a lot of money
walrus01 8y ago
> because school do not enforce their "no phone" policy due to litigious parents. I have family members that are teachers - and this is one of the reasons why some of the most experienced, highly skilled teachers are leaving to teach at private schools. It's not a good thing, because these private schools' tuition fees ($16,000 per year or more) mean that the children of the top 5% of wage earners in a city are getting a better quality education than the public school children. And this is in a location where the public schools are generally of good quality. Just like any job, teachers who have reached their personal threshold of bullshit-tolerance will leave and go find a job elsewhere.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  You're asserting parents at $16k/year private schools are likely to be less pushy/litigious?
  - bluGill 8y ago
    The school will kick them out if they are. Public schools have to accept all kids who live in their area, private schools can refuse to accept the kids.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Sure, and then they get threatened with lawsuits. I grew up in a very wealthy school district and we had a big private school in the suburb as well. The local cops were leery of disciplining kids, let alone the teachers.
    - naniwaduni 8y ago
      That and the school can afford to absorb a meritless lawsuit or two, which makes those less likely to achieve their goal.
  - irishsultan 8y ago
    Isn't it a recurring theme that paying users are less obnoxious than free users (e.g. when doing feature requests). Probably has something to do with the fact that if you are willing to pay that much for something, then it must be worth it.
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    You might be surprised. I attended a private high school like that, and one of my parents worked at a similar high school. The other worked in inner city schools in the NYC DOE. They encountered very different types of parents throughout their careers, yes, but I'd describe the difference as being more of a continuum of helicopter parenting, not litigiousness. The two private schools I have some experience with (the one I attended and the one my father taught at) had no problem disciplining - and even expelling - rich kids. The only time conspicuous leniency was granted for serious offenses was when the kid was 1) a first time offender, and 2) the child of a large donor or member of the school board. Sure, the occasional lawsuit comes up (more often than not it's just a threat of a lawsuit). But the schools I'm thinking of charges $20k annual tuition to most students; scholarships reducing that tuition are both competitive and limited. They also have a large, consistent stream of donations. They can weather the storm on most such lawsuits and have counsel on retainer for that kind of thing.
52-6F-62 8y ago
God— when I was younger, if a kid was caught with anything not class-related the teacher would just take it from them and keep it for the duration of the class, or until the end of the day—when they could pick it back up. We didn't have cell phones then, but kids had Gameboys or toys or comic books. If there was an urgent matter, your parents could contact or have someone contact the school itself. How is it so difficult?
3chelon 8y ago
Yes I find this shocking too. My kids are teenagers and their high school makes them check their phones into a special locker room during school hours. I hadn't imagined it any other way until other relatives said their kids were actually using their phones in class. It seems utterly insane to me - how is it even possible to teach a class like that? Schools have always had rules, so it seems like a no-brainer to enforce this one, and if parents complain, ask them to take their kids elsewhere.
- dorchadas 8y ago
  I've found it worse that parents actually try to call their kids during class. Not text, but call. And then complain when you tell a kid to hang up. It's definitely an issue, and too many principles are afraid of being sued by parents to do much against what they want (and the kids spend more time trying to sneak on their phones than actually paying attention and getting their work done).
  - briandear 8y ago
    Afraid of being sued? For what? What would that lawsuit look like and are there actually any real cases on record for parents suing over in class cell phone bans?
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      Parents will sue for anything, and even if it's frivolous, it still costs the schools money to fight it. And all it would take is one student not being able to contact/be contacted by a parent in an emergency for such a lawsuit to arise, honestly.
- illegalsmile 8y ago
  From what I've heard around here schools have increasingly less ability to enforce anything especially if it's disciplinary in action. Having not been in school beyond a college-level course in years I can only imagine the effect this is having on classroom learning and participation. Teachers are losing more and more control of their classrooms for frivolous reasons. I too think it's a no-brainer to enforce a no phone in the classroom situation.
flycaliguy 8y ago
Just to add another anecdote. My partner has taught all over our Canadian school board, k-12 and cellphones are not really the disaster that I often read about. They put them away and tend to keep them away in class. She’s fairly flexible about requests to use them from students and just starts laying down a harder stance with individuals who seem to be abusing her generosity. Just our experience. She caters her French class to their interests. Makes paper handout exercises involving “tagging” vocabulary in photos and stuff like that. I think young people are just really into their phones and teachers need to relate instead of treating it like the enemy. She goes on her phone after the bell as well... Maybe her job is better than those of American public school teachers as far as pay, class size and so on. Maybe cellphones are breaking the camels back down south in a way they don’t here? I could see that being the case and speaks to bigger problems
dorchadas 8y ago
I'm a current teacher, and I can confirm this is happening. Our school allows the teachers to implement the policy, but it's almost impossible to be the one teacher who doens't allow it. I've found that the kids spend more time trying to be on their phone than paying attention, then they (and parents) want to whine about grades. It's definitely ruined any passion I have, and I wish the school would take the France route to smartphones (i.e. usage banned in schools)

bilbo0s 8y ago

A little further off topic, but can people really sue because a teacher tells their kid not to use their phone in class? That seems counter-productive.

bluGill 8y ago
You can sue for anything. you might not win, but it still costs them a lot of money

walrus01 8y ago

> because school do not enforce their "no phone" policy due to litigious parents. I have family members that are teachers - and this is one of the reasons why some of the most experienced, highly skilled teachers are leaving to teach at private schools. It's not a good thing, because these private schools' tuition fees ($16,000 per year or more) mean that the children of the top 5% of wage earners in a city are getting a better quality education than the public school children. And this is in a location where the public schools are generally of good quality. Just like any job, teachers who have reached their personal threshold of bullshit-tolerance will leave and go find a job elsewhere.

ceejayoz 8y ago
You're asserting parents at $16k/year private schools are likely to be less pushy/litigious?
- bluGill 8y ago
  The school will kick them out if they are. Public schools have to accept all kids who live in their area, private schools can refuse to accept the kids.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Sure, and then they get threatened with lawsuits. I grew up in a very wealthy school district and we had a big private school in the suburb as well. The local cops were leery of disciplining kids, let alone the teachers.
  - naniwaduni 8y ago
    That and the school can afford to absorb a meritless lawsuit or two, which makes those less likely to achieve their goal.
- irishsultan 8y ago
  Isn't it a recurring theme that paying users are less obnoxious than free users (e.g. when doing feature requests). Probably has something to do with the fact that if you are willing to pay that much for something, then it must be worth it.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  You might be surprised. I attended a private high school like that, and one of my parents worked at a similar high school. The other worked in inner city schools in the NYC DOE. They encountered very different types of parents throughout their careers, yes, but I'd describe the difference as being more of a continuum of helicopter parenting, not litigiousness. The two private schools I have some experience with (the one I attended and the one my father taught at) had no problem disciplining - and even expelling - rich kids. The only time conspicuous leniency was granted for serious offenses was when the kid was 1) a first time offender, and 2) the child of a large donor or member of the school board. Sure, the occasional lawsuit comes up (more often than not it's just a threat of a lawsuit). But the schools I'm thinking of charges $20k annual tuition to most students; scholarships reducing that tuition are both competitive and limited. They also have a large, consistent stream of donations. They can weather the storm on most such lawsuits and have counsel on retainer for that kind of thing.

52-6F-62 8y ago

God— when I was younger, if a kid was caught with anything not class-related the teacher would just take it from them and keep it for the duration of the class, or until the end of the day—when they could pick it back up. We didn't have cell phones then, but kids had Gameboys or toys or comic books. If there was an urgent matter, your parents could contact or have someone contact the school itself. How is it so difficult?

3chelon 8y ago

Yes I find this shocking too. My kids are teenagers and their high school makes them check their phones into a special locker room during school hours. I hadn't imagined it any other way until other relatives said their kids were actually using their phones in class. It seems utterly insane to me - how is it even possible to teach a class like that? Schools have always had rules, so it seems like a no-brainer to enforce this one, and if parents complain, ask them to take their kids elsewhere.

dorchadas 8y ago
I've found it worse that parents actually try to call their kids during class. Not text, but call. And then complain when you tell a kid to hang up. It's definitely an issue, and too many principles are afraid of being sued by parents to do much against what they want (and the kids spend more time trying to sneak on their phones than actually paying attention and getting their work done).
- briandear 8y ago
  Afraid of being sued? For what? What would that lawsuit look like and are there actually any real cases on record for parents suing over in class cell phone bans?
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    Parents will sue for anything, and even if it's frivolous, it still costs the schools money to fight it. And all it would take is one student not being able to contact/be contacted by a parent in an emergency for such a lawsuit to arise, honestly.
illegalsmile 8y ago
From what I've heard around here schools have increasingly less ability to enforce anything especially if it's disciplinary in action. Having not been in school beyond a college-level course in years I can only imagine the effect this is having on classroom learning and participation. Teachers are losing more and more control of their classrooms for frivolous reasons. I too think it's a no-brainer to enforce a no phone in the classroom situation.

flycaliguy 8y ago

Just to add another anecdote. My partner has taught all over our Canadian school board, k-12 and cellphones are not really the disaster that I often read about. They put them away and tend to keep them away in class. She’s fairly flexible about requests to use them from students and just starts laying down a harder stance with individuals who seem to be abusing her generosity. Just our experience. She caters her French class to their interests. Makes paper handout exercises involving “tagging” vocabulary in photos and stuff like that. I think young people are just really into their phones and teachers need to relate instead of treating it like the enemy. She goes on her phone after the bell as well... Maybe her job is better than those of American public school teachers as far as pay, class size and so on. Maybe cellphones are breaking the camels back down south in a way they don’t here? I could see that being the case and speaks to bigger problems

dorchadas 8y ago

I'm a current teacher, and I can confirm this is happening. Our school allows the teachers to implement the policy, but it's almost impossible to be the one teacher who doens't allow it. I've found that the kids spend more time trying to be on their phone than paying attention, then they (and parents) want to whine about grades. It's definitely ruined any passion I have, and I wish the school would take the France route to smartphones (i.e. usage banned in schools)