4 ms·

This doesn't work in Germany, for example. If you charge back, they'll just put you into a central register (called Schufa) that will basically make it impossib

This doesn't work in Germany, for example. If you charge back, they'll just put you into a central register (called Schufa) that will basically make it impossible for you to get a credit or even to rent an apartment.

chopin 8y ago
Charge back for a credit card? That's the first time I hear of this. Do you have citations for this?
- zaroth 8y ago
  Contesting a charge is a primary feature of credit cards — at least in the US. There’s a prominent link when I login to my credit card account allowing me to contest any charge, and a litany of reasons which you can then select from, ranging from “I don’t recognize / didn’t make this charge” to “Item was not delivered”, “Item was returned”, etc.
- mcv 8y ago
  It's the one saving grace for using something so insecure for payments. At least the credit card company and/or merchant share that risk.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    The CC offloads all of the risk + a fine to the merchant, they assume none of it.
- chopin 8y ago
  I've been imprecise, sorry. What I meant: how lead chargebacks to a credit card to a negative Schufa entry? I've never heard of this.
entity345 8y ago
It's not a charge back in that sense when you report fraud or card theft. And I suppose that the effect you describe results from abusive requests from charge backs. I doubt you will be refused a mortgaged because you were a victim of theft in the past...
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > I doubt you will be refused a mortgaged because you were a victim of theft in the past... Don't be so certain about this. The credit reporting agencies are evil, nasty blackboxes and it is not transparent how your score is influenced, even by fraudulent stuff.
Xylakant 8y ago
No, disputed charges must not be reported to any credit register, Schufa or other. Only undisputed charges or court-certified decisions can be entered into a credit register. Even the repeated threat of reporting the charge to the credit register is illegal in many cases [1]. [1] https://www.wbs-law.de/datenschutz/unternehmen-darf-nicht-mit-schufa-drohen-50397/ https://www.wbs-law.de/datenschutz/unternehmen-darf-nicht-mi...
mschuster91 8y ago
While I hate the Schufa with a passion, it is not as clear-cut and automated as you make it seem. Before anyone can do shit with your Schufa score (or the other smaller credit reporting agencies arvato infoscore and Creditreform), they have to formally remind you of the debt that you have due to the charge-back before, and you can always contest fraudulent entries at the credit reporting agencies. Additionally, you can and should file a police report for fraud when hit with such a scheme, it makes dealing with your card-issuing bank and the CRAs so much easier.
- philpem 8y ago
  Can confirm that the police fraud report helps grease the gears (in the UK, this is done through Action Fraud). The bank went from "we won't help you" to "oh, we'll fix that" about as soon as I told them I had a crime reference number... I guess this has something to do with the penalties for making a false police report being much higher (in criminal law terms) than lying to a bank.

chopin 8y ago

Charge back for a credit card? That's the first time I hear of this. Do you have citations for this?

zaroth 8y ago
Contesting a charge is a primary feature of credit cards — at least in the US. There’s a prominent link when I login to my credit card account allowing me to contest any charge, and a litany of reasons which you can then select from, ranging from “I don’t recognize / didn’t make this charge” to “Item was not delivered”, “Item was returned”, etc.
mcv 8y ago
It's the one saving grace for using something so insecure for payments. At least the credit card company and/or merchant share that risk.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  The CC offloads all of the risk + a fine to the merchant, they assume none of it.
chopin 8y ago
I've been imprecise, sorry. What I meant: how lead chargebacks to a credit card to a negative Schufa entry? I've never heard of this.

entity345 8y ago

It's not a charge back in that sense when you report fraud or card theft. And I suppose that the effect you describe results from abusive requests from charge backs. I doubt you will be refused a mortgaged because you were a victim of theft in the past...

mschuster91 8y ago
> I doubt you will be refused a mortgaged because you were a victim of theft in the past... Don't be so certain about this. The credit reporting agencies are evil, nasty blackboxes and it is not transparent how your score is influenced, even by fraudulent stuff.

Xylakant 8y ago

No, disputed charges must not be reported to any credit register, Schufa or other. Only undisputed charges or court-certified decisions can be entered into a credit register. Even the repeated threat of reporting the charge to the credit register is illegal in many cases [1]. [1] https://www.wbs-law.de/datenschutz/unternehmen-darf-nicht-mit-schufa-drohen-50397/ https://www.wbs-law.de/datenschutz/unternehmen-darf-nicht-mi...

mschuster91 8y ago

While I hate the Schufa with a passion, it is not as clear-cut and automated as you make it seem. Before anyone can do shit with your Schufa score (or the other smaller credit reporting agencies arvato infoscore and Creditreform), they have to formally remind you of the debt that you have due to the charge-back before, and you can always contest fraudulent entries at the credit reporting agencies. Additionally, you can and should file a police report for fraud when hit with such a scheme, it makes dealing with your card-issuing bank and the CRAs so much easier.

philpem 8y ago
Can confirm that the police fraud report helps grease the gears (in the UK, this is done through Action Fraud). The bank went from "we won't help you" to "oh, we'll fix that" about as soon as I told them I had a crime reference number... I guess this has something to do with the penalties for making a false police report being much higher (in criminal law terms) than lying to a bank.