10 ms·

Perhaps worth mentioning, since it's nowhere in the article, that the first thing to do is not to spend hours on the phone with Deliveroo (or whoever else) but

Perhaps worth mentioning, since it's nowhere in the article, that the first thing to do is not to spend hours on the phone with Deliveroo (or whoever else) but to call your bank to report the transactions as fraudulent and to block your card. That will probably get you a refund quicker (the transactions will likely be held until clarified) and will stop any further fraud. As for Deliveroo's support team... Not very good in my experience, but that's common. Their competitors are no better.

dkersten 8y ago
That was my first thought too. Yes, I'd contact Deliveroo, but also my bank. If I didn't get a refund (some people waited months?), I'd sue them in a small claims court if the amount is low enough for small claims and if its not, I'd at least talk to a legal adviser. Waiting on Deliveroo for months after being defrauded thousands of pounds is crazy.
- stuff4ben 8y ago
  Apparently you have waaay more time than I do to sue people in small claims court. Charge back via calling up my CC company is much easier and quicker.
  - dkersten 8y ago
    At least where I am, a small claims claim is a matter of filling out a form and paying the fee. I may be contacted for more information, but don't need to otherwise do anything unless I'm unsatisfied with the outcome, in which case the appeals process goes through a proper court. Besides, I said that I'd only do this if I didn't get a refund through Deliveroo/bank/CC chargeback. I certainly wouldn't start with small claims court.
    - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
      A demand letter is often enough and is a good step before small claims. “Fix my problem in ten days or get sued in small claims court", sent via certified mail to their designated agent for legal service in your jurisdiction, can often solve your problem.
      - dkersten 8y ago
        Good suggestion. There's definitely a series of steps to go through before any time consuming and expensive lawyering up is needed.
        ThrustVectoring 8y ago
        Small claims court often does not require a lawyer. But yeah, the general process of "document things and escalate using said documentation to people whose job it is to make sure expensive lawsuits and regulatory actions don't happen" is an excellent choice.
        dkersten 8y ago
        Oh, I know, I said that in my other comment: where I am, it requires little more than filling out the claim form and paying the fee (and giving them more info if requested). Its only if you want to appeal that you may need a lawyer, or if you want to sue in a normal court. I just meant that there’s a bunch of steps you can do, including small claims, before needing a lawyer.
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  Small claims hearings are held in county courts.
maaaats 8y ago
Problem is most vendors will then block you from ever using their service again. Might not be such a big bummer, after all they're helping people steal your money. But here it was through Apple Pay, so it may have bigger ramifications to block the card.
- entity345 8y ago
  > Problem is most vendors will then block you from ever using their service again. Who is "most vendors" exactly?
  - maaaats 8y ago
    An example: Uber drivers requesting fake cleaning fee was recently discussed here on HN. Uber refuse to handle it properly, so people solve it by doing chargebacks only to find themselves blocked from the service. Also heard it with lots of other vendors, but won't name without having something more substantial to back it up with.
    - tyfon 8y ago
      Again, being blocked from a service that is screwing with you don't seem that bad. I would never touch a company again that did that to me anyway.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        It kinda depends on the service, though. If I have a shitty customer service interaction with an Amazon rep, I might have to weigh the chargeback versus the value of my Kindle library, my AWS instances suddenly going dark, etc. In the case of Uber, I might find myself severely restricted in transit options in an unfamiliar city.
    - netsharc 8y ago
      It seems to be part of the "Distrupt!" business model. The "customer" "service" team is basically disaster mitigation, probably taught to screw with the customers. Like AirBnB, $2000 worth of damage to your apartment? They'll delay for a few days and offer you $200 if you agree to an NDA. Or that guy whose dog died after being walked by someone who used someone's account an dog-walking-service...
Waterluvian 8y ago
This is basically the sole "feature" of credit cards I value. Any time I'm buying something from somewhere that might act poorly, I use a credit card for the free leverage I have in a disagreement. Had an old phones screen repaired at a store inside a Walmart. They fixed it but half the screen had no touch capability. They were highly resistant to doing anything about it until I said I would just do a charge back. Tone instantly changed.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  I've started using privacy.com after I saw a post here on HN about it. It's pretty nice. Basically you link up your bank account and they create debit cards for any online vendors you use, and you can set limits, destroy cards etc. I usually put monthly / transactional limits. Like with Uber Eats I know I only spend x amount, if anybody tried to use my Uber Eats card for 100 USD it would decline it. But also it locks itself to the vendor you choose, so it can't be used elsewhere.
  - Waterluvian 8y ago
    That's an interesting idea. But I find a far easier solution is to turn on notifications. I get an email on my phone within a minute of every transaction. It's really nice having that feedback loop.
    - giancarlostoro 8y ago
      I have those on too! I saw the suggestion here, so I get: app notifications and emails. I also get notified if my balance gets too low. I used to want all that off, but email is a reasonable "paper trail" to know I'm not going crazy if I see an odd notification.
    - e40 8y ago
      It doesn't save the PITA that is getting your card stolen, though. With a virtual CC you don't have to do anything except close that card out (which you can on Citi's website, which is the version of this I use).
tome 8y ago
To add my anecdata, I had an excellent experience with Deliveroo's support team just before Christmas. Some pizzas arrived damaged. They offered to send exactly the same order again.
eternalny1 8y ago
That is the best way, go to the bank. It is mentioned in passing in the article itself. > Of the roughly 40 people I spoke to, not a single one had been refunded by the delivery service; those who did get their money back had got it from their bank.
- s_dev 8y ago
  I agree this is evidence. We know at least Deliveroo don't deal with fraud promptly or take it particularly seriously and thats bad enough even if they do eventually get around to it.
ddeokbokki 8y ago
In my own experience, UberEats support team is stellar - I have had many many many issues due to couriers or the restaurant (wrong order, order got delivered completely ruined, order was cold, order was missing something, ...) and never once was I left in a bad situation. I have almost always had a full refund (otherwise just partial for what was wrong/damaged) but what I really LOVED was how transparent they are throughout the process. They message you when your concerns resulted in a ticket opening, when someone picks up your support ticket, when they are working on a resolution, and then when they found a resolution for your issue. It's very seamless as well - I was experiencing issues on their web platform, DM'd support on Twitter, received info by email and on the UberEat app and at not time was there inconsistencies. If it wasn't for the quality of their support team - I would have stopped using UberEats a long time ago.
- entity345 8y ago
  Deleted my UberEats account when they told me that they could not offer any compensation for not delivering what I had ordered. Getting a refund on what you ordered but did not receive is not compensation, it's what they must do.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- Finnucane 8y ago
  >In my own experience, UberEats support team is stellar - I have had many many many issues due to couriers or the restaurant (wrong order, order got delivered completely ruined, order was cold, order was missing something, ...) So, they have good customer support, but suck at the basic function of the business? And you keep using them?
onetimemanytime 8y ago
use that too often and you might be blackballed by the service. I know, but life is long.
techntoke 8y ago
Please note that when you do this in a dispute, they are probably going to block you from using their service in the future.
- 6nf 8y ago
  I've never heard of this happening but why would you want to keep using them anyway?
  - techntoke 8y ago
    As someone else mentioned.. if you do this with Steam, you could get blocked from accessing all your past purchases. If you did this with your ISP, you may not have other high-speed ISPs to choose from.
    - adrianratnapala 8y ago
      And here is the irony. Money-as-a-service (banks) give you the power to do this. But dependence on anything-else-as-a-service gives the provider power to make you think twice.
mey 8y ago
The word you should use to the merchant is chargeback. They should sit-up straight at that word, if not, just goto your credit card company.
stuaxo 8y ago
Definitely worthwhile, I think a huge amount of people in the UK use Debit cards with Deliveroo and other services so no money will come back off these.

dkersten 8y ago

That was my first thought too. Yes, I'd contact Deliveroo, but also my bank. If I didn't get a refund (some people waited months?), I'd sue them in a small claims court if the amount is low enough for small claims and if its not, I'd at least talk to a legal adviser. Waiting on Deliveroo for months after being defrauded thousands of pounds is crazy.

stuff4ben 8y ago
Apparently you have waaay more time than I do to sue people in small claims court. Charge back via calling up my CC company is much easier and quicker.
- dkersten 8y ago
  At least where I am, a small claims claim is a matter of filling out a form and paying the fee. I may be contacted for more information, but don't need to otherwise do anything unless I'm unsatisfied with the outcome, in which case the appeals process goes through a proper court. Besides, I said that I'd only do this if I didn't get a refund through Deliveroo/bank/CC chargeback. I certainly wouldn't start with small claims court.
  - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
    A demand letter is often enough and is a good step before small claims. “Fix my problem in ten days or get sued in small claims court", sent via certified mail to their designated agent for legal service in your jurisdiction, can often solve your problem.
    - dkersten 8y ago
      Good suggestion. There's definitely a series of steps to go through before any time consuming and expensive lawyering up is needed.
      - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
        Small claims court often does not require a lawyer. But yeah, the general process of "document things and escalate using said documentation to people whose job it is to make sure expensive lawsuits and regulatory actions don't happen" is an excellent choice.
        dkersten 8y ago
        Oh, I know, I said that in my other comment: where I am, it requires little more than filling out the claim form and paying the fee (and giving them more info if requested). Its only if you want to appeal that you may need a lawyer, or if you want to sue in a normal court. I just meant that there’s a bunch of steps you can do, including small claims, before needing a lawyer.
0db532a0 8y ago
Small claims hearings are held in county courts.

maaaats 8y ago

Problem is most vendors will then block you from ever using their service again. Might not be such a big bummer, after all they're helping people steal your money. But here it was through Apple Pay, so it may have bigger ramifications to block the card.

entity345 8y ago
> Problem is most vendors will then block you from ever using their service again. Who is "most vendors" exactly?
- maaaats 8y ago
  An example: Uber drivers requesting fake cleaning fee was recently discussed here on HN. Uber refuse to handle it properly, so people solve it by doing chargebacks only to find themselves blocked from the service. Also heard it with lots of other vendors, but won't name without having something more substantial to back it up with.
  - tyfon 8y ago
    Again, being blocked from a service that is screwing with you don't seem that bad. I would never touch a company again that did that to me anyway.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      It kinda depends on the service, though. If I have a shitty customer service interaction with an Amazon rep, I might have to weigh the chargeback versus the value of my Kindle library, my AWS instances suddenly going dark, etc. In the case of Uber, I might find myself severely restricted in transit options in an unfamiliar city.
  - netsharc 8y ago
    It seems to be part of the "Distrupt!" business model. The "customer" "service" team is basically disaster mitigation, probably taught to screw with the customers. Like AirBnB, $2000 worth of damage to your apartment? They'll delay for a few days and offer you $200 if you agree to an NDA. Or that guy whose dog died after being walked by someone who used someone's account an dog-walking-service...

Waterluvian 8y ago

This is basically the sole "feature" of credit cards I value. Any time I'm buying something from somewhere that might act poorly, I use a credit card for the free leverage I have in a disagreement. Had an old phones screen repaired at a store inside a Walmart. They fixed it but half the screen had no touch capability. They were highly resistant to doing anything about it until I said I would just do a charge back. Tone instantly changed.

giancarlostoro 8y ago
I've started using privacy.com after I saw a post here on HN about it. It's pretty nice. Basically you link up your bank account and they create debit cards for any online vendors you use, and you can set limits, destroy cards etc. I usually put monthly / transactional limits. Like with Uber Eats I know I only spend x amount, if anybody tried to use my Uber Eats card for 100 USD it would decline it. But also it locks itself to the vendor you choose, so it can't be used elsewhere.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  That's an interesting idea. But I find a far easier solution is to turn on notifications. I get an email on my phone within a minute of every transaction. It's really nice having that feedback loop.
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    I have those on too! I saw the suggestion here, so I get: app notifications and emails. I also get notified if my balance gets too low. I used to want all that off, but email is a reasonable "paper trail" to know I'm not going crazy if I see an odd notification.
  - e40 8y ago
    It doesn't save the PITA that is getting your card stolen, though. With a virtual CC you don't have to do anything except close that card out (which you can on Citi's website, which is the version of this I use).

tome 8y ago

To add my anecdata, I had an excellent experience with Deliveroo's support team just before Christmas. Some pizzas arrived damaged. They offered to send exactly the same order again.

eternalny1 8y ago

That is the best way, go to the bank. It is mentioned in passing in the article itself. > Of the roughly 40 people I spoke to, not a single one had been refunded by the delivery service; those who did get their money back had got it from their bank.

s_dev 8y ago
I agree this is evidence. We know at least Deliveroo don't deal with fraud promptly or take it particularly seriously and thats bad enough even if they do eventually get around to it.

ddeokbokki 8y ago

In my own experience, UberEats support team is stellar - I have had many many many issues due to couriers or the restaurant (wrong order, order got delivered completely ruined, order was cold, order was missing something, ...) and never once was I left in a bad situation. I have almost always had a full refund (otherwise just partial for what was wrong/damaged) but what I really LOVED was how transparent they are throughout the process. They message you when your concerns resulted in a ticket opening, when someone picks up your support ticket, when they are working on a resolution, and then when they found a resolution for your issue. It's very seamless as well - I was experiencing issues on their web platform, DM'd support on Twitter, received info by email and on the UberEat app and at not time was there inconsistencies. If it wasn't for the quality of their support team - I would have stopped using UberEats a long time ago.

entity345 8y ago
Deleted my UberEats account when they told me that they could not offer any compensation for not delivering what I had ordered. Getting a refund on what you ordered but did not receive is not compensation, it's what they must do.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Finnucane 8y ago
>In my own experience, UberEats support team is stellar - I have had many many many issues due to couriers or the restaurant (wrong order, order got delivered completely ruined, order was cold, order was missing something, ...) So, they have good customer support, but suck at the basic function of the business? And you keep using them?

onetimemanytime 8y ago

use that too often and you might be blackballed by the service. I know, but life is long.

techntoke 8y ago

Please note that when you do this in a dispute, they are probably going to block you from using their service in the future.

6nf 8y ago
I've never heard of this happening but why would you want to keep using them anyway?
- techntoke 8y ago
  As someone else mentioned.. if you do this with Steam, you could get blocked from accessing all your past purchases. If you did this with your ISP, you may not have other high-speed ISPs to choose from.
  - adrianratnapala 8y ago
    And here is the irony. Money-as-a-service (banks) give you the power to do this. But dependence on anything-else-as-a-service gives the provider power to make you think twice.

mey 8y ago

The word you should use to the merchant is chargeback. They should sit-up straight at that word, if not, just goto your credit card company.

stuaxo 8y ago

Definitely worthwhile, I think a huge amount of people in the UK use Debit cards with Deliveroo and other services so no money will come back off these.