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Ask YC: How do you find manufacturers to outsource to?
I have an idea for a toy. How does one go about finding a toy manufacturer in China for example that can built it? Do they typically have in house resources to help with design and material selection?
- wave 18y agoI am not sure if http://alibaba.com http://alibaba.com can help.
- noel_gomez 18y agogreat link thanks
- kynikos 18y agoBe careful when dealing with vendors through the site. Beyond having to deal with Engrish, given turnaround times are often inaccurate.
- dpapathanasiou 18y agoThe guys behind MouseDriver (http://www.amazon.com/MouseDriver-Chronicles-John-Lusk/dp/0738205737 http://www.amazon.com/MouseDriver-Chronicles-John-Lusk/dp/07...) did this. I don't remember the details (and unfortunately I freecycled the book so I can't look it up now) but you might want to read that for yourself.
- mixmax 18y agoA friend of mine had a company that outsourced production of T-shirts to China. The problems he faced was not so much finding suppliers but dealing with the cultural differences of how to do business.
- noel_gomez 18y agoCan you be more specific on the "cultural differences of how to do business." Do you just mean language?
- mixmax 18y agoI didn't elaborate in the parent post since it might have sounded racist. Which it isn't meant to be. It seems that asians have a different perspective of doing a deal than Europeans and Americans. Americans and Europeans think the negotiations are over when the contract is signed. Asians seem to think that the negotiations have only just started when the contract is signed, and they will try anything to cut corners if they can. So you basically have to watch every step extremely closely, making sure you don't release payments before the priduct is secured, etc. This, of course, is just my impression - feel free to correct me if it isn't accurate.
- functionoid 18y agoYes it's true. I have outsourced projects at times when I have more work then I can handle. Their best trick is to double the price we agreed on after taking the work half way. The excuse for that is that the work to be done is more than we estimated even when I clearly explain what I need before the project starts. Though this is for software. But I know it applies to other type of work. And yes quality is always an issue. So be careful. It's always better to have American or European company in between
- bkow20 18y agoI'm going to have to disagree with you here. I designed a retail product and had it manufactured in China. While there are cultural differences, I didn't have any problems in terms of altering a contract after its signed, or cutting corners. The company and specific representative I dealt with was courteous, fair, and delivered on the promise completely to my expectations. Language is no doubt a barrier (the employees' english is often a few notches down from a native speaker, as expected), but it just required less requests per email, and working in a style that was compatible. Finally, there are some great benefits to working with a Chinese company: low costs, and the time difference. It's really great to be able to start up a late night email correspondence that's right in the middle of their workday.
- noel_gomez 18y ago
- waldrews 18y agoYou're probably going to want a design firm, rather than a manufacturing firm, to get you to the point where you have a physical prototype, CAD files of manufacturable parts, and choices of materials and processes. Then they can guide you to a contract manufacturer. Some resources: Design firms that work on toys: http://www.dexigner.com/directory/cat/Toy_Design/Companies.html http://www.dexigner.com/directory/cat/Toy_Design/Companies.h... MIT product design course: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-783JSpring-2006/CourseHome/index.htm http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-783J... Berkeley's course covering rapid prototyping and manufacturing, including lecture videos: http://bmi.berkeley.edu/Me221/me221_resources.htm http://bmi.berkeley.edu/Me221/me221_resources.htm http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978169 http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906... The Berkeley videos totally opened my eyes - I was a computer science guy with no clue about making physical products.
- noel_gomez 18y agoI'm a lone entrepreneur with an idea, don't think I can afford professional design firm. I will check out the MIT and Berkeley courses though.
- waldrews 18y agoYou still might want to get the bids and see what you can afford - even $10k might get you pretty far if you're willing to do a lot of the work yourself, using the design firm as consultants to guide you through the process.
- maxklein 18y agoHi Noel, there are many companies who work as intermediates between you and chinese manufacturers. These companies are based in china, but run by foreigners. They find the company, produce the product, arrange the shipping. So it's basically the same deal you would get, but perhaps 5% more expensive. For that, you avoid the cross cultural difference, you have reputable sources etc. I can introduce you to a company I know personally based in Shanghai. They'll source any product you want. Send me a message if you're interested, I don't want to be seen as a shill.
- noel_gomez 18y agoThanks Maximus, I sent you an email, but it bounced I used the maximus gmail address on your profile. How would you respond to mixmax's post above? (on the cultural differences)
- maxklein 18y agoSorry, my email in the profile was wrong. It's maximusklein@gmail.com, and not maximus@gmail.com Regarding the cultural differences - I'll say this: It's very difficult to do effective work with chinese companies without micro management. The chinese work very hard, but sometimes they work very hard on the wrong things. An obviously flawed product will get created and nobody will bother to inform you till its too late. And the english is terrible. Products are mislabelled, punctuation is usually in the wrong spot. Outsourcing to china is a very hands on affair. Quality control is not an option, it's a neccessity. I've been to china often over the past few months, and it's a very different working philosophy from what I'm used to. So yes, be careful. Very careful.
- noel_gomez 18y agoI have Chinese friends, maybe need to recruit them for effective communication.
- mrtron 18y agoMy gf's company does this sort of thing regularly and manufactures LCDs, GPS units, etc. As per mixmax's comment, I don't find this to be true. It sounds like miscommunication which could easily occur across a language barrier. Email me if you have any specific questions.
- ig1 18y agoYou seem to be missing an important step, before you find a manufacturer you probably want to create a prototype. While the idea might be great in your head, you won't know if it's any good until you've built a few prototypes and tested them on your target audience. There's a TV series in the UK called Dragon's Den where inventors pitch their ideas to angels to get funding. You can actually learn a lot from watching it (in terms of understanding if your product will actually suceed or not and various problems you might encounter). It might be worth your time watch a couple of seasons of it.
- noel_gomez 18y agoI am planning on prototyping first even though that may not have been clear. There is a show in the US called American inventor which sounds similar to Dragon's Den (it probably is the same thing adapted for the US, like American Idol). I have seen American inventor and you do learn a lot. The biggest lesson is not to spend too much on something which may not sell. I have seen people go on there and state that they have put their life savings or $50,000 to $100,000 on ideas which were not so great. I have no illusions and tend to be pretty realistic. I think there is potential for my idea, but I would first prototype it and see if there is a market before building 10k units.
- ig1 18y agoI've seen American inventor before, it's not quite like DD. DD is pretty much like a real VC pitch type of scenario, where you have startups that have got off the ground and are looking for funding to expand. So you get a lot more variety of companies and a lot more concentration on business planning. AI seems to be a lot more focus on "best invention" and is a lot more "reality showish" then DD.
- briansmith 18y agoPlease read this: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0804.frank.html http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0804.frank.ht... It is not so easy to outsource to Asia if you care about ethics, quality, or safety. You will need some broker with experience to help you sort out the good companies from the bad ones.
- noel_gomez 18y agoYeah, I know this is an issue I need to consider. I have also thought of the whole led based paint debacle which surfaced last year since my idea is for a toy.
- nurall 18y agoThomasnet is a free resource to find prototypers and design shops - http://snurl.com/28w08 http://snurl.com/28w08 [www_thomasnet_com]
- semigeek 18y agoMy fiancee is in the retail business (seasonal gifts, in 600+ stores). The key is finding a good sourcing company - there are some that will work on commission once you prove yourself to be a good product developer. They'll even haggle with the plants to get you multiple samples before forcing you into a production line.
- noel_gomez 18y agosemigeek, do you mind sharing some of your/your fiancee's experience. You can email me directly at noel AY noelgomez D OT com I'm interested in how she got things prototyped and even how she sold things into the retail channel.
- menloparkbum 18y agoDoesn't directly help you, but Bunnie, the guy who made the Chumby, has very interesting blog posts about getting a product made in China. Check out his blog starting around January 2007. http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?m=200701 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?m=200701