4 ms·

I see it more as "UK is leaving the EU, so they're losing all their benefits, unless specifically negotiated for".

by erinnh 8y ago

alias_neo 8y ago
That's what it should be, but it seems the EU are intentionally being difficult in negotiations. They want to make life hard for Britain so others that have been considering leaving, think again.
- bkor 8y ago
  > That's what it should be, but it seems the EU are intentionally being difficult in negotiations. The biggest cause is that EU with 500 representing million people has a way better negotiating position. Further, UK really needs to have a deal or they'll be really bad off. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat.... UK has almost no leverage, EU does. In a negotiation you're not entitled to anything. If the cost is 1 MUSD and the seller knows you're so desperate you'll buy it for 150 MUSD then that's what the price will be (or higher). More in detail, one of the issues is the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Meaning the Good Friday Agreement. UK wants to ignore the problem. This while Ireland has veto rights on any deal offered by the EU.
  - alias_neo 8y ago
    The Ireland problem is certainly an issue, our government also doesn't seem to be aiming for a deal that suits many of us. I'm a European, British born and bread and the Union is a good thing. I'm angry that the vote went the way it did, because my generation and our children will be picking up this mess. But I don't blame the British people, I blame our government for not educating us on what the vote meant, what the consequences were, and less forgivable, for using FUD and propoganda to sway the vote in favour of leaving.
- erinnh 8y ago
  What would you consider "not making it difficult"?
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    Full membership rights, with zero membership duties, it seems; and the right to reenter and reexit any damn number of times. Anything less is "punishing the UK". HMG seems to be under the impression that the whole thing is some kind of cat door.
  - alias_neo 8y ago
    I'm honestly not sure, but the problem is compounded by a government that hasn't got the skills to negotiate the right deal, May's deal does not suit us, and ~50% of us didn't want to leave in the first place. I voted for remain, I've never sides with a need to divide and build "walls". I have my opinion on the kind of people that voted to leave, but I'm a filthy millennial, so what do I know. I should shut up and do what I'm told by the boomers and the Xers before they pop it and leave this mess to me and my children. A lot of them have complaints about what EU is doing to this country with its laws etc, but the unveiling to listen when I tell them about the laws EU has passed that have been good for us, even protected is as a people from our own government.
    - erinnh 8y ago
      I understand you are frustrated, but I just dont understand the opinion that says that the EU is somehow punishing or making it hard for the UK during Brexit. I would really want to know what you would expect. Generally if you(as a country) decide to leave a club, you cannot keep drinking the mojitos that are available inside. There are a lot of things that came through EU membership to the UK, but these things cannot stay if the UK does not want to be inside the EU. The only way to keep some of the benefits is to negotiate with the EU. And some benefits are just not able to be separated from others. Like freedom of movement with the single market. Im interested in seeing what the UK decides to do in the next two months. What kind of consensus between the MPs is going to be found? (or maybe none at all?)

I see it more as "UK is leaving the EU, so they're losing all their benefits, unless specifically negotiated for".

by erinnh 8y ago

I see it more as "UK is leaving the EU, so they're losing all their benefits, unless specifically negotiated for".

That's what it should be, but it seems the EU are intentionally being difficult in negotiations. They want to make life hard for Britain so others that have been considering leaving, think again.

bkor 8y ago
> That's what it should be, but it seems the EU are intentionally being difficult in negotiations. The biggest cause is that EU with 500 representing million people has a way better negotiating position. Further, UK really needs to have a deal or they'll be really bad off. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat.... UK has almost no leverage, EU does. In a negotiation you're not entitled to anything. If the cost is 1 MUSD and the seller knows you're so desperate you'll buy it for 150 MUSD then that's what the price will be (or higher). More in detail, one of the issues is the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Meaning the Good Friday Agreement. UK wants to ignore the problem. This while Ireland has veto rights on any deal offered by the EU.
- alias_neo 8y ago
  The Ireland problem is certainly an issue, our government also doesn't seem to be aiming for a deal that suits many of us. I'm a European, British born and bread and the Union is a good thing. I'm angry that the vote went the way it did, because my generation and our children will be picking up this mess. But I don't blame the British people, I blame our government for not educating us on what the vote meant, what the consequences were, and less forgivable, for using FUD and propoganda to sway the vote in favour of leaving.
erinnh 8y ago
What would you consider "not making it difficult"?
- Piskvorrr 8y ago
  Full membership rights, with zero membership duties, it seems; and the right to reenter and reexit any damn number of times. Anything less is "punishing the UK". HMG seems to be under the impression that the whole thing is some kind of cat door.
- alias_neo 8y ago
  I'm honestly not sure, but the problem is compounded by a government that hasn't got the skills to negotiate the right deal, May's deal does not suit us, and ~50% of us didn't want to leave in the first place. I voted for remain, I've never sides with a need to divide and build "walls". I have my opinion on the kind of people that voted to leave, but I'm a filthy millennial, so what do I know. I should shut up and do what I'm told by the boomers and the Xers before they pop it and leave this mess to me and my children. A lot of them have complaints about what EU is doing to this country with its laws etc, but the unveiling to listen when I tell them about the laws EU has passed that have been good for us, even protected is as a people from our own government.
  - erinnh 8y ago
    I understand you are frustrated, but I just dont understand the opinion that says that the EU is somehow punishing or making it hard for the UK during Brexit. I would really want to know what you would expect. Generally if you(as a country) decide to leave a club, you cannot keep drinking the mojitos that are available inside. There are a lot of things that came through EU membership to the UK, but these things cannot stay if the UK does not want to be inside the EU. The only way to keep some of the benefits is to negotiate with the EU. And some benefits are just not able to be separated from others. Like freedom of movement with the single market. Im interested in seeing what the UK decides to do in the next two months. What kind of consensus between the MPs is going to be found? (or maybe none at all?)