5 ms·

The much simpler explanation is they're both caused by carbohydrates and especially sugar.

with_a_herring 8y ago
I have an even simpler explanation : They're both caused by eating. More seriously, yes, I agree that sugar is nasty, but it's a bit too simple to blame it as the sole factor for all possible diseases that have a mechanism of action that hasn't been clearly identified.
- reissbaker 8y ago
  It's not as simplistic a claim as you might be interpreting it as: another somewhat-well-supported theory of Alzheimer's is that it's essentially diabetes of the brain. [1] The GP's comment re: carbs and sugar was presumably referencing that theory. [1] https://www.alzheimers.net/diabetes-of-the-brain/ https://www.alzheimers.net/diabetes-of-the-brain/
  - SteveCoast 8y ago
    Exactly, and put better than I could. It appears that the simplicity of the explanation is itself a problem. Surely - all these chronic diseases can't be that simply explained? Dr. Wahls essentially claims carbs are the root cause of MS, which she cured in herself (with the corollary that carbs eliminate other nutrition). Dr. Fung claims it's the root cause of diabetes. Prof Seyfried claims it's the root cause of cancer. It surely can't be that simple? Reading all their work, and others, I'm struck that it's very much a five-whys scenario[1]. Also there are two points wrapped up in the original response. One is about the cause, but there's a bigger issue about the avoidance of the problem in a first place. If someone never eats refined carbs and therefor avoids the root cause, why would they care about the details of the cause? We care about the details insomuch as we would like to treat the disease, but today we can't do that. On the other hand we do know with a lot of certainty that eating well, fasting and exercising are good for us and avoid the problems in the first place. For some reason, that doesn't matter as much. The downside with treating the disease is that you also enable it, like how we "treat" T2 diabetes by essentially just giving you more diabetes via insulin shots. [1] - https://stevecoast.com/2015/03/27/the-world-will-only-get-weirder/ https://stevecoast.com/2015/03/27/the-world-will-only-get-we...
    - smn1234 8y ago
      Occam's razor
- itchyouch 8y ago
  Interesting side note, when I did a 4-day water fast, I noticed around day 2 that my morning breath was virtually gone. I figured there's always enough bacteria in the mouth to cause morning breath, food consumption or not, but there is definitely an exacerbation of mouth bacteria from food consumption.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    When did your ketosis breath disappear?
    - itchyouch 8y ago
      IIRC, within hours of breaking fast. At most a day. Unless one still stays at significant enough caloric deficit.
vidarh 8y ago
Already the first paragraph points out the actual bacteria causing gum disease is present in the brain of Alzheimer patients. How strong their evidence is, is another matter, but they appear to be proposing an actual causal chain that involves these bacteria, not just correlation. They're also proposing to treat it with drugs specifically targeting these bacteria.
- zimpenfish 8y ago
  > proposing to treat it with drugs specifically targeting these bacteria Which does look initially promising: > Giving the mice a drug that binds gingipains cleared P. gingivalis from the brain better than a common antibiotic, and it reduced the β-amyloid production and resulting neurodegeneration. [...] In initial tests with human volunteers, a similar drug seemed safe and showed signs of improving cognition in nine participants with Alzheimer’s, the company says.
  - mrfusion 8y ago
    Would that drug also treat gingavitius?
notacoward 8y ago
Simpler, yes, but so is the cosmic-ray theory. Do you have any actual evidence? The causal relationship seems even less established than that in the OP. Also, did you miss the distinction between a cause and the cause? It's not a zero-sum game.
- SteveCoast 8y ago
  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sugar+alzheimers http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sugar+alzheimers

I have an even simpler explanation : They're both caused by eating. More seriously, yes, I agree that sugar is nasty, but it's a bit too simple to blame it as the sole factor for all possible diseases that have a mechanism of action that hasn't been clearly identified.

reissbaker 8y ago
It's not as simplistic a claim as you might be interpreting it as: another somewhat-well-supported theory of Alzheimer's is that it's essentially diabetes of the brain. [1] The GP's comment re: carbs and sugar was presumably referencing that theory. [1] https://www.alzheimers.net/diabetes-of-the-brain/ https://www.alzheimers.net/diabetes-of-the-brain/
- SteveCoast 8y ago
  Exactly, and put better than I could. It appears that the simplicity of the explanation is itself a problem. Surely - all these chronic diseases can't be that simply explained? Dr. Wahls essentially claims carbs are the root cause of MS, which she cured in herself (with the corollary that carbs eliminate other nutrition). Dr. Fung claims it's the root cause of diabetes. Prof Seyfried claims it's the root cause of cancer. It surely can't be that simple? Reading all their work, and others, I'm struck that it's very much a five-whys scenario[1]. Also there are two points wrapped up in the original response. One is about the cause, but there's a bigger issue about the avoidance of the problem in a first place. If someone never eats refined carbs and therefor avoids the root cause, why would they care about the details of the cause? We care about the details insomuch as we would like to treat the disease, but today we can't do that. On the other hand we do know with a lot of certainty that eating well, fasting and exercising are good for us and avoid the problems in the first place. For some reason, that doesn't matter as much. The downside with treating the disease is that you also enable it, like how we "treat" T2 diabetes by essentially just giving you more diabetes via insulin shots. [1] - https://stevecoast.com/2015/03/27/the-world-will-only-get-weirder/ https://stevecoast.com/2015/03/27/the-world-will-only-get-we...
  - smn1234 8y ago
    Occam's razor
itchyouch 8y ago
Interesting side note, when I did a 4-day water fast, I noticed around day 2 that my morning breath was virtually gone. I figured there's always enough bacteria in the mouth to cause morning breath, food consumption or not, but there is definitely an exacerbation of mouth bacteria from food consumption.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  When did your ketosis breath disappear?
  - itchyouch 8y ago
    IIRC, within hours of breaking fast. At most a day. Unless one still stays at significant enough caloric deficit.

vidarh 8y ago

Already the first paragraph points out the actual bacteria causing gum disease is present in the brain of Alzheimer patients. How strong their evidence is, is another matter, but they appear to be proposing an actual causal chain that involves these bacteria, not just correlation. They're also proposing to treat it with drugs specifically targeting these bacteria.

zimpenfish 8y ago
> proposing to treat it with drugs specifically targeting these bacteria Which does look initially promising: > Giving the mice a drug that binds gingipains cleared P. gingivalis from the brain better than a common antibiotic, and it reduced the β-amyloid production and resulting neurodegeneration. [...] In initial tests with human volunteers, a similar drug seemed safe and showed signs of improving cognition in nine participants with Alzheimer’s, the company says.
- mrfusion 8y ago
  Would that drug also treat gingavitius?

notacoward 8y ago

Simpler, yes, but so is the cosmic-ray theory. Do you have any actual evidence? The causal relationship seems even less established than that in the OP. Also, did you miss the distinction between a cause and the cause? It's not a zero-sum game.

SteveCoast 8y ago
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sugar+alzheimers http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sugar+alzheimers