4 ms·

> To be honest, it seems like that collapse has more to do with authoritarianism and rampant corruption than socialism. I think the critique of socialism is th

> To be honest, it seems like that collapse has more to do with authoritarianism and rampant corruption than socialism. I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates economically productive ways to provide for yourself.

tivert 8y ago
> I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates on economically productive ways to provide for yourself. There are critiques of capitalism that say the exact same thing. Personally, I think the key variables that makes a successful economy are actually found outside of the details of its economic system (e.g. rule of law, strong yet uncorrupt institutions, democratic representation, cooperative social mores, etc).
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Maybe a better way to put it is that capitalist systems can produce enough excess to pay for rampant corruption, whereas socialist/communist systems cannot, since they are fundamentally crippled without the price mechanism to inform resource allocation.
  - ardy42 8y ago
    > whereas socialist/communist systems cannot, since they are fundamentally crippled without the price mechanism to inform resource allocation. Socialism does not necessarily mean central planning.
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      You're right, thanks for pointing that out. I think social control of the means of production still has a similar problem to not having price signals: resource allocation becomes motivated by political considerations, rather than by a profit motive.
      - ardy42 8y ago
        > I think social control of the means of production still has a similar problem to not having price signals: resource allocation becomes motivated by political considerations, rather than by a profit motive. Resource allocation via the profit motive is a political consideration; it's not some neutral thing that's somehow above politics.

tivert 8y ago

> I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates on economically productive ways to provide for yourself. There are critiques of capitalism that say the exact same thing. Personally, I think the key variables that makes a successful economy are actually found outside of the details of its economic system (e.g. rule of law, strong yet uncorrupt institutions, democratic representation, cooperative social mores, etc).

toasterlovin 8y ago
Maybe a better way to put it is that capitalist systems can produce enough excess to pay for rampant corruption, whereas socialist/communist systems cannot, since they are fundamentally crippled without the price mechanism to inform resource allocation.
- ardy42 8y ago
  > whereas socialist/communist systems cannot, since they are fundamentally crippled without the price mechanism to inform resource allocation. Socialism does not necessarily mean central planning.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    You're right, thanks for pointing that out. I think social control of the means of production still has a similar problem to not having price signals: resource allocation becomes motivated by political considerations, rather than by a profit motive.
    - ardy42 8y ago
      > I think social control of the means of production still has a similar problem to not having price signals: resource allocation becomes motivated by political considerations, rather than by a profit motive. Resource allocation via the profit motive is a political consideration; it's not some neutral thing that's somehow above politics.