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Social security, Medicare, general health, income security, and veterans benefits and services take up over 62% of the United States federal budget. How should

Social security, Medicare, general health, income security, and veterans benefits and services take up over 62% of the United States federal budget. How should socialism address this growing problem? What a poignant comment, considering right this very moment, there's a socialist collapse in Venezuela being broadcast.

socialismb4d 8y ago
I’d suggest you look into the details of the external forces (western governments) involvement in undermining the socialist efforts in Venezuela before concluding it failed on its own merits
adamnemecek 8y ago
Us healthcare is insanely overpriced.
- jeffbax 8y ago
  US healthcare is complete regulatory capture.
rootusrootus 8y ago
Perhaps we will have to increase the budget somehow. Or print some extra money, as we are already quite willing to do. And is there any particular reason, aside from partisan ideology, to point at Venezuela, which is different in many important aspects from the U.S., instead of one of the very successful Western European nations?
- andrewmcwatters 8y ago
  Because our sheer size is more comparable to the EU than it is to take the entire nation and compare to a member state.
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  Sovereign wealth funds, or the abrupt lack thereof, seem relevant.
nickthemagicman 8y ago
Venezuela is not socialist. It's a dictatorship run by one man. Don't let the marketing fool you. It just calls socialist just like North Korea calls itself a Republic. The USA is a good example of a socialist country. Or 'democratic socialism' is a better term.
- andrewmcwatters 8y ago
  Yeah, that's fucking bullshit. The US isn't a socialist country, but okay. I guess you don't know what socialism is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    Thats a list of self declared socialist states... North Korea has self declared itself to be a Republic. Don't believe the marketing friend.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Social democracy (which is what I think you meant, since the U.S. is definitely not an example of democratic socialism) and socialism are very different. The first redistributes the proceeds of capitalism. The second has the state controlling the means of production without the price mechanism which is necessary to coordinate economic activity in a large, technologically advanced society.
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism are both subsets of the giant umbrella of socialism. Also communism falls under this umbrella. The U.S. state does control the means of production in certain industries which you see with this current govt shutdown. Aircraft, roads and highways, and many other industries. The key tenant of some schools of socialism is for govt to control the means of production for key areas of the public interest such as police,fire fighters, roads, health care. Etc. What bothers me is the inability of people to differentiate between full on communism and America's/Sweden's/France's measured version of socialism. It's all lumped under the same umbrella of 'socialism is bad reeeee'.
tivert 8y ago
> Social security, Medicare, general health, income security, and veterans benefits and services take up over 62% of the United States federal budget. How should socialism address this growing problem? What exactly is the growing problem? That those services exist? That they cost money? That the government doesn't spend more on other things that it should, messing up the proportions? From a socialist's perspective, I don't think the fact that those programs take up "over 62% of the budget" would even be considered a problem at all. However, a socialist would clearly see it as a problem if they're mismanaged or wasteful. > there's a socialist collapse in Venezuela being broadcast. To be honest, it seems like that collapse has more to do with authoritarianism and rampant corruption than socialism.
- andrewmcwatters 8y ago
  Because all else being equal, if you want to do more, you have to spend more. Are you seriously expecting things to become more efficient? That's very optimistic for a nation with so many key economic factors for its working citizens stagnant or declining since the early 70s. Very optimistic.
  - tivert 8y ago
    > Because all else being equal, if you want to do more, you have to spend more. And, all else being equal, if you want to spend less, you have to neglect more problems (and people).
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  > To be honest, it seems like that collapse has more to do with authoritarianism and rampant corruption than socialism. I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates economically productive ways to provide for yourself.
  - tivert 8y ago
    > I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates on economically productive ways to provide for yourself. There are critiques of capitalism that say the exact same thing. Personally, I think the key variables that makes a successful economy are actually found outside of the details of its economic system (e.g. rule of law, strong yet uncorrupt institutions, democratic representation, cooperative social mores, etc).

socialismb4d 8y ago

I’d suggest you look into the details of the external forces (western governments) involvement in undermining the socialist efforts in Venezuela before concluding it failed on its own merits

adamnemecek 8y ago

Us healthcare is insanely overpriced.

jeffbax 8y ago
US healthcare is complete regulatory capture.

rootusrootus 8y ago

Perhaps we will have to increase the budget somehow. Or print some extra money, as we are already quite willing to do. And is there any particular reason, aside from partisan ideology, to point at Venezuela, which is different in many important aspects from the U.S., instead of one of the very successful Western European nations?

andrewmcwatters 8y ago
Because our sheer size is more comparable to the EU than it is to take the entire nation and compare to a member state.
Godel_unicode 8y ago
Sovereign wealth funds, or the abrupt lack thereof, seem relevant.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Venezuela is not socialist. It's a dictatorship run by one man. Don't let the marketing fool you. It just calls socialist just like North Korea calls itself a Republic. The USA is a good example of a socialist country. Or 'democratic socialism' is a better term.

andrewmcwatters 8y ago
Yeah, that's fucking bullshit. The US isn't a socialist country, but okay. I guess you don't know what socialism is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  Thats a list of self declared socialist states... North Korea has self declared itself to be a Republic. Don't believe the marketing friend.
toasterlovin 8y ago
Social democracy (which is what I think you meant, since the U.S. is definitely not an example of democratic socialism) and socialism are very different. The first redistributes the proceeds of capitalism. The second has the state controlling the means of production without the price mechanism which is necessary to coordinate economic activity in a large, technologically advanced society.
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism are both subsets of the giant umbrella of socialism. Also communism falls under this umbrella. The U.S. state does control the means of production in certain industries which you see with this current govt shutdown. Aircraft, roads and highways, and many other industries. The key tenant of some schools of socialism is for govt to control the means of production for key areas of the public interest such as police,fire fighters, roads, health care. Etc. What bothers me is the inability of people to differentiate between full on communism and America's/Sweden's/France's measured version of socialism. It's all lumped under the same umbrella of 'socialism is bad reeeee'.

tivert 8y ago

> Social security, Medicare, general health, income security, and veterans benefits and services take up over 62% of the United States federal budget. How should socialism address this growing problem? What exactly is the growing problem? That those services exist? That they cost money? That the government doesn't spend more on other things that it should, messing up the proportions? From a socialist's perspective, I don't think the fact that those programs take up "over 62% of the budget" would even be considered a problem at all. However, a socialist would clearly see it as a problem if they're mismanaged or wasteful. > there's a socialist collapse in Venezuela being broadcast. To be honest, it seems like that collapse has more to do with authoritarianism and rampant corruption than socialism.

andrewmcwatters 8y ago
Because all else being equal, if you want to do more, you have to spend more. Are you seriously expecting things to become more efficient? That's very optimistic for a nation with so many key economic factors for its working citizens stagnant or declining since the early 70s. Very optimistic.
- tivert 8y ago
  > Because all else being equal, if you want to do more, you have to spend more. And, all else being equal, if you want to spend less, you have to neglect more problems (and people).
toasterlovin 8y ago
> To be honest, it seems like that collapse has more to do with authoritarianism and rampant corruption than socialism. I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates economically productive ways to provide for yourself.
- tivert 8y ago
  > I think the critique of socialism is that it leads to authoritarianism and rampant corruption because it eliminates on economically productive ways to provide for yourself. There are critiques of capitalism that say the exact same thing. Personally, I think the key variables that makes a successful economy are actually found outside of the details of its economic system (e.g. rule of law, strong yet uncorrupt institutions, democratic representation, cooperative social mores, etc).