9 ms·

Updated Debian 9: 9.7 released

56 points by TimWolla 8y ago

xmichael999 8y ago
Already switched to Devuan and happier.
- ggm 8y ago
  I've only had pain from systemd when I tried to put my own code under systemd. running a closed-box with packages written for systemd, works fine for me. YMMV But having said that, I'm a BSD person partly-moved to Debian and I never came strongly into it, before systemd deployed so my rc.d wishes were never met, so I didn't go to devuan first.
Barrin92 8y ago
Always used Fedora but tempted to give Debian a try. Is there some general consensus on what release to run on a day-to-day workstation? The docs seem to discourage use of testing or sid, but many distros in the debian ecosystem seem to pull from both repositories.
- MisterOctober 8y ago
  I ran and very much liked 'Stretch' stable for, uh, stability, but most of the Debian users I know personally use Testing and I've never heard a complaint from them.
  - h43z 8y ago
    The problem with testing is you get security updates quite late.
    - thekyle 8y ago
      Also sometimes packages will just randomly disappear from the repositories.
- finnthehuman 8y ago
  The joke I've heard is: "unstable" means testing, "testing" means stable, and "stable" means old. I run stable for servers and testing for workstations. I don't use it on the desktop much anymore, just my secondary computer at work for things that don't require windows; and for VMs at home. I don't recall any bumps in the road on testing in a long time, but I guess that all depends on which packages you use and their maintainers.
  - LeoPanthera 8y ago
    Note that testing (unlike stable AND unstable) doesn't get security updates.
    - kelnos 8y ago
      Not entirely true. Oldstable and stable get security updates from the Debian Security Team. Unstable gets security updates as a part of package bumps, and maintainers will usually be fairly quick to bump or patch a package in unstable for security reasons. (IOW, Security Team doesn't touch unstable.) Security-related updates from unstable usually get promoted to testing fairly quickly (within a few days), depending on the severity of the vulnerability and drift between the version of the package in testing and unstable. Regardless, you can usually easily install security updates from unstable as soon as they get uploaded.
- chungy 8y ago
  Unstable (sid) is basically rolling-release. If you don't know how to fix a broken system caused by package updates, you don't belong on sid (same goes for testing, really). Backports (https://backports.debian.org/ https://backports.debian.org/) can relieve some of the age complaints in stable, but packages are pretty selectively included, and some packages (such as KDE or GNOME releases) are never put into backports.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Honestly I think Fedora is by far the better workstation distro. Debian stable is great for servers though.
- ars 8y ago
  It depends on how much time you want to spend on admin. If you run stable it just runs, you don't have to do a thing, until the next update (1.5 years or so) and you can plan in advance to have a down-day. If you run testing you'll have a bit more admin to deal with, whenever this or that changes, and you have to configure the newest and greatest. And you can't wait either, because changes are mixed with security updates.
- nijaru 8y ago
  I'm in the other boat, but I normally run sid at home and have had very little issues myself. I have been looking at fedora as an alternative as of late
- blihp 8y ago
  I generally stick with 'stable' for the first year of it's release (since it's reasonably fresh) then switch to 'testing' (pretty much whenever I start reading about new package updates that I want or need) until the next release. Then I switch back to stable... rinse and repeat. Been doing this since Debian 6 and it's worked out pretty well. 'stable' is the long term release and what you'd choose if you want a minimum of hassles. The packages are usually months (when the stable release initially occurs) to a couple of years old(at the tail end of the release just before the next stable comes out.) It's pretty much like a major OS X or Windows release from a stability standpoints and the .1... .n releases occur (i.e. like the just released 9.7) pretty regularly for at least a couple/few years after the .0 release with security and minor bug fixes. Great for servers and desktops where you want a minimum of drama. 'testing' is fairly stable (in general... Debian 10 testing has been anything but stable for me the last 6 months compared to testing leading up to previous releases) Generally, it's been integration tested (you shouldn't experience broken package dependencies) but there can and will be issues with the individual packages themselves. If you don't mind occasionally diagnosing and fixing issues, this can be a pretty good compromise between stability and package freshness. Good for development servers and desktops. Now that we're in a freeze (for Debian 10) it's reasonably safe to start looking toward testing for desktops that aren't 'mission critical' as most of the major gyrations are done and they're tightening it up for release. When Debian 10 is released, you can just change from 'testing' to 'stable' and you'll hop off the roller coaster for a while. (Note: one thing that might annoy you here is that in testing package can and do pop in and out of existence from time to time. Not frequent, but it does happen) 'sid' is the bleeding edge. You may have broken dependencies and non-functional packages. Pretty much anything can happen here... all sid guarantees is that the package built as this is where a lot of development testing occurs. Packages pop in and out of existence regularly. Not recommended for your daily driver but good for seeing what's coming and testing things out. Regular breakage will occur.
  - kelnos 8y ago
    Same here, though I usually switch to testing a little earlier, around 6 months after a new major stable release. I, too, have found testing to be somewhat unstable over the past 6 months or so. Nothing terrible or unusable, but annoying nonetheless. I generally keep my servers (and Raspberry Pis) on stable, but I'll likely be moving them to testing soon, since it's in a stabilization freeze.
- porpoisely 8y ago
  I have stable on my main box and testing on another. Haven't had problems with either. sid can be a pain once in a while. If you want to try it, you could try it on a VM. For day to day, I'd stick to stable or testing.
- k4r1 8y ago
  I run stable at work and on my private workstation and laptop. Minimum downtime, it just works. I install my bleeding edge, i.e Haskell, Python, Emacsen, Firefox etc in my home directory. Best of both worlds. A stable base system and the newest application and environments on top.
- na85 8y ago
  IME testing was the worst choice. Stable is very stable, but packages are often years old and lacking features you might expect from fedora. Sid breaks occasionally but unlike testing, Sid actually gets fixed rapidly because the fixes don't have to go through as much review. There's tons of churn with dozens of packages being updated daily on Sid, whereas stable is great if you're happy with the feature set offered. Backports are hit and miss.
- ebg13 8y ago
  If you're on a laptop and don't want to risk major headaches, then I recommend testing+nonfree. I can never remember where to find the right images, so I just always google for this page when I need the download: https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-Needs/ https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-Needs/
- hddherman 8y ago
  My experience with both Fedora 29 and Debian 9 as a workstation OS has been short, but so far Fedora has been a more pleasant experience, mostly due to me using relatively new hardware.
Panino 8y ago
To everyone thinking about trying Debian... Normally I run OpenBSD everywhere but I've got a Debian laptop that's nice to use. It's great to try other systems! Even if you're die-hard in favor of something, trying something else will enrich your appreciation or even make you fall in love with it again. Or it could make you realize you've been missing out on some things that are actually pretty cool. And if you're a hacker then maybe you'll just add the missing features. :-) I've been using OpenBSD for almost 20 years so it's sort of a lifelong friend. Even something as amazing as pledge/unveil don't bring me back to that "first time" magic, although I gotta say they bring me pretty close. Some 3rd party software that comes with Debian is newer than that in OpenBSD, and sometimes it's the other way around. Some things are nicer in Debian, like the GUI wifi selection is pretty handy. OpenBSD has excellent wifi support under the hood but no paint job if that makes sense. So at least for a laptop that I'm carrying all over the place, Debian's wifi is pretty great. You should try Debian! And OpenBSD, and Haiku, and ReactOS, or whatever has your curiosity. These days it's comically easy to try a new OS. Even if computers weren't historically cheap, they're so overpowered that you can emulate them and run multiple virtual machines on a single box. "There's never been a better time than now!" I'll probably try VOID Linux next. Definitely give Debian a spin.
- imcs 8y ago
  When you say Debian has nicer wifi UI than OpenBSD, isn't that dependent on the DE? You never mentioned which DEs you use. If you run the same DE on both, does it look noticeably different?
  - bubblethink 8y ago
    I think nicer in this case means just having one. OpenBSD doesn't have one at all (unless you count cli as UI).
    - Crestwave 8y ago
      > (unless you count cli as UI) It certainly is. But it isn't a GUI, which is what OP said.
efiecho 8y ago
I guess that Devuan is also affected by this, so does anyone know if updated installation images will be available?
teddyh 8y ago
Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 9.7, is not a new major release of Debian.
prike 8y ago
I'm using Debian on my work/travel laptop for 7 years now. Fast and very stable. Definitely worth a try.

56 points by TimWolla 8y ago

xmichael999 8y ago

Already switched to Devuan and happier.

ggm 8y ago
I've only had pain from systemd when I tried to put my own code under systemd. running a closed-box with packages written for systemd, works fine for me. YMMV But having said that, I'm a BSD person partly-moved to Debian and I never came strongly into it, before systemd deployed so my rc.d wishes were never met, so I didn't go to devuan first.

Barrin92 8y ago

Always used Fedora but tempted to give Debian a try. Is there some general consensus on what release to run on a day-to-day workstation? The docs seem to discourage use of testing or sid, but many distros in the debian ecosystem seem to pull from both repositories.

MisterOctober 8y ago
I ran and very much liked 'Stretch' stable for, uh, stability, but most of the Debian users I know personally use Testing and I've never heard a complaint from them.
- h43z 8y ago
  The problem with testing is you get security updates quite late.
  - thekyle 8y ago
    Also sometimes packages will just randomly disappear from the repositories.
finnthehuman 8y ago
The joke I've heard is: "unstable" means testing, "testing" means stable, and "stable" means old. I run stable for servers and testing for workstations. I don't use it on the desktop much anymore, just my secondary computer at work for things that don't require windows; and for VMs at home. I don't recall any bumps in the road on testing in a long time, but I guess that all depends on which packages you use and their maintainers.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Note that testing (unlike stable AND unstable) doesn't get security updates.
  - kelnos 8y ago
    Not entirely true. Oldstable and stable get security updates from the Debian Security Team. Unstable gets security updates as a part of package bumps, and maintainers will usually be fairly quick to bump or patch a package in unstable for security reasons. (IOW, Security Team doesn't touch unstable.) Security-related updates from unstable usually get promoted to testing fairly quickly (within a few days), depending on the severity of the vulnerability and drift between the version of the package in testing and unstable. Regardless, you can usually easily install security updates from unstable as soon as they get uploaded.
chungy 8y ago
Unstable (sid) is basically rolling-release. If you don't know how to fix a broken system caused by package updates, you don't belong on sid (same goes for testing, really). Backports (https://backports.debian.org/ https://backports.debian.org/) can relieve some of the age complaints in stable, but packages are pretty selectively included, and some packages (such as KDE or GNOME releases) are never put into backports.
LeoPanthera 8y ago
Honestly I think Fedora is by far the better workstation distro. Debian stable is great for servers though.
ars 8y ago
It depends on how much time you want to spend on admin. If you run stable it just runs, you don't have to do a thing, until the next update (1.5 years or so) and you can plan in advance to have a down-day. If you run testing you'll have a bit more admin to deal with, whenever this or that changes, and you have to configure the newest and greatest. And you can't wait either, because changes are mixed with security updates.
nijaru 8y ago
I'm in the other boat, but I normally run sid at home and have had very little issues myself. I have been looking at fedora as an alternative as of late
blihp 8y ago
I generally stick with 'stable' for the first year of it's release (since it's reasonably fresh) then switch to 'testing' (pretty much whenever I start reading about new package updates that I want or need) until the next release. Then I switch back to stable... rinse and repeat. Been doing this since Debian 6 and it's worked out pretty well. 'stable' is the long term release and what you'd choose if you want a minimum of hassles. The packages are usually months (when the stable release initially occurs) to a couple of years old(at the tail end of the release just before the next stable comes out.) It's pretty much like a major OS X or Windows release from a stability standpoints and the .1... .n releases occur (i.e. like the just released 9.7) pretty regularly for at least a couple/few years after the .0 release with security and minor bug fixes. Great for servers and desktops where you want a minimum of drama. 'testing' is fairly stable (in general... Debian 10 testing has been anything but stable for me the last 6 months compared to testing leading up to previous releases) Generally, it's been integration tested (you shouldn't experience broken package dependencies) but there can and will be issues with the individual packages themselves. If you don't mind occasionally diagnosing and fixing issues, this can be a pretty good compromise between stability and package freshness. Good for development servers and desktops. Now that we're in a freeze (for Debian 10) it's reasonably safe to start looking toward testing for desktops that aren't 'mission critical' as most of the major gyrations are done and they're tightening it up for release. When Debian 10 is released, you can just change from 'testing' to 'stable' and you'll hop off the roller coaster for a while. (Note: one thing that might annoy you here is that in testing package can and do pop in and out of existence from time to time. Not frequent, but it does happen) 'sid' is the bleeding edge. You may have broken dependencies and non-functional packages. Pretty much anything can happen here... all sid guarantees is that the package built as this is where a lot of development testing occurs. Packages pop in and out of existence regularly. Not recommended for your daily driver but good for seeing what's coming and testing things out. Regular breakage will occur.
- kelnos 8y ago
  Same here, though I usually switch to testing a little earlier, around 6 months after a new major stable release. I, too, have found testing to be somewhat unstable over the past 6 months or so. Nothing terrible or unusable, but annoying nonetheless. I generally keep my servers (and Raspberry Pis) on stable, but I'll likely be moving them to testing soon, since it's in a stabilization freeze.
porpoisely 8y ago
I have stable on my main box and testing on another. Haven't had problems with either. sid can be a pain once in a while. If you want to try it, you could try it on a VM. For day to day, I'd stick to stable or testing.
k4r1 8y ago
I run stable at work and on my private workstation and laptop. Minimum downtime, it just works. I install my bleeding edge, i.e Haskell, Python, Emacsen, Firefox etc in my home directory. Best of both worlds. A stable base system and the newest application and environments on top.
na85 8y ago
IME testing was the worst choice. Stable is very stable, but packages are often years old and lacking features you might expect from fedora. Sid breaks occasionally but unlike testing, Sid actually gets fixed rapidly because the fixes don't have to go through as much review. There's tons of churn with dozens of packages being updated daily on Sid, whereas stable is great if you're happy with the feature set offered. Backports are hit and miss.
ebg13 8y ago
If you're on a laptop and don't want to risk major headaches, then I recommend testing+nonfree. I can never remember where to find the right images, so I just always google for this page when I need the download: https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-Needs/ https://fiendish.github.io/The-Debian-Gotham-Needs/
hddherman 8y ago
My experience with both Fedora 29 and Debian 9 as a workstation OS has been short, but so far Fedora has been a more pleasant experience, mostly due to me using relatively new hardware.

Panino 8y ago

To everyone thinking about trying Debian... Normally I run OpenBSD everywhere but I've got a Debian laptop that's nice to use. It's great to try other systems! Even if you're die-hard in favor of something, trying something else will enrich your appreciation or even make you fall in love with it again. Or it could make you realize you've been missing out on some things that are actually pretty cool. And if you're a hacker then maybe you'll just add the missing features. :-) I've been using OpenBSD for almost 20 years so it's sort of a lifelong friend. Even something as amazing as pledge/unveil don't bring me back to that "first time" magic, although I gotta say they bring me pretty close. Some 3rd party software that comes with Debian is newer than that in OpenBSD, and sometimes it's the other way around. Some things are nicer in Debian, like the GUI wifi selection is pretty handy. OpenBSD has excellent wifi support under the hood but no paint job if that makes sense. So at least for a laptop that I'm carrying all over the place, Debian's wifi is pretty great. You should try Debian! And OpenBSD, and Haiku, and ReactOS, or whatever has your curiosity. These days it's comically easy to try a new OS. Even if computers weren't historically cheap, they're so overpowered that you can emulate them and run multiple virtual machines on a single box. "There's never been a better time than now!" I'll probably try VOID Linux next. Definitely give Debian a spin.

imcs 8y ago
When you say Debian has nicer wifi UI than OpenBSD, isn't that dependent on the DE? You never mentioned which DEs you use. If you run the same DE on both, does it look noticeably different?
- bubblethink 8y ago
  I think nicer in this case means just having one. OpenBSD doesn't have one at all (unless you count cli as UI).
  - Crestwave 8y ago
    > (unless you count cli as UI) It certainly is. But it isn't a GUI, which is what OP said.

efiecho 8y ago

I guess that Devuan is also affected by this, so does anyone know if updated installation images will be available?

teddyh 8y ago

Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 9.7, is not a new major release of Debian.

prike 8y ago

I'm using Debian on my work/travel laptop for 7 years now. Fast and very stable. Definitely worth a try.