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No customer protection and irreversible transactions = "This is a feature not a bug of bitcoin." Shapeshift is not an atomic swap, it's an exchange and they ch

No customer protection and irreversible transactions = "This is a feature not a bug of bitcoin." Shapeshift is not an atomic swap, it's an exchange and they charge a large fee on top of the current spot price determined by other major exchanges. Bitcoin hacks are related to Bitcoin because Bitcoin/Ethereum is software. See: https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/cve-2018-17144-the-aftermath-of-a-catastrophic-bitcoin-bug/ https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/cve-2018-17144-the-aftermath... When was the SWIFT protocol hacked? I'm guessing you're confusing stolen credentials with "hack" in that case which is indeed similar to the many cases where cryptocoin exchanges get hacked though stolen credentials and user funds are taken - except if that happens to your account at a normal bank you're protected with FDIC insurance or something similar depending on your bank. You're confused. Regular banks fail, and customer funds are protected. When a regular bank fails, that has absolutely nothing to do with debasing currency, nor does it affect the inflation rate. When you use Bitcoin there's a lot of trust needed that can't be guaranteed or verified, and while problems exist with traditional payment systems at least customers have protections and criminals or bad businesses can be held accountable. I'm not sure why you think avoiding a legal system, or avoiding financial regulations would help solve any of the problems with malicious scams and abuse? It sounds more like you're attempting to sell a product that does not fix any of those things, hoping to convince an audience to buy into an oligarchical penny stock ala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

r32a_ 8y ago
I'm sorry your arguments do not make sense, I recommend you read about the multi-faceted nature of Bitcoin. You have a poorly researched and simplistic view of the topic, which is very common on HN. You are confusing Bitcoin with a payment network like VISA or PayPal. Hacks of exchanges are not related to Bitcoin itself, it is like saying, someone broke into my Gmail account because my password was easily guessed but you say TCP/IP broken. It does not make sense at all! > No customer protection and irreversible transactions = "This is a feature not a bug of bitcoin." Bitcoin has the economic principles of gold. * Pure raw gold has no consumer protection and it is irreversible. * Government cannot give FDIC insurance to gold bars, because governments cannot print gold bars out of thin air. * Unlike gold, Bitcoin is digital, which means it can be sent across borders at a low cost, (Almost free with LN) * You're comparing multiple things (Payment network, economic system, and governance system) with 1 piece of software. if you want to compare payment network features, then you have to compare bitcoin/LN transactions to VISA, PayPal..etc If you want to compare the economic system, then it's mostly Austrian vs Keynesian. If you want to compare governance then it's about libertarian/anarchist/decentralization vs Centralised governance. Unfortunately, you are coming across as very closed minded with same old tired arguments that were laid against bitcoin from inception, because the general population has a poor grasp of what it really is. Have a read of this, it's a bit dated but it's still good, if you want to have a better understanding of what bitcoin is: https://www.coindesk.com/nobody-understands-bitcoin-thats-ok https://www.coindesk.com/nobody-understands-bitcoin-thats-ok
- nosuchthing 8y ago
  You seem to have no familuarity with software or computer science, and you're intentionally ignoring and evading addressing the issue with the Bitcoin bugs and hacks on BTC client wallet software, which keeps having bugs/hacks in the protocol itself allowing more free Bitcoins to be generated by hackers: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposu... CVE-2010-5141 remote attack can spend anyone's balance CVE-2010-5139 On 15 August 2010 over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. https://www.webcitation.org/6IwX8oDIN https://www.webcitation.org/6IwX8oDIN CVE-2012-2459 2012-05-14 This could be used to fork the blockchain, including deep double-spend attacks. CVE-2013-3219 Attacker can double-spend with 1 confirmation CVE-2018-17144 Multiple double spend bugs allowing a user to send more funds then available in wallet balance. This book offers a more comprehensive and detailed insight into the history and technical details of Bitcoin and the history of those involved within "the Blockchain community": https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/book/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/book/ If you look at the previous comments you keep ignoring the specific points explained against why your claims are disingenuous and naive and repeating the same tired marketing falsehoods in your attempt to convince rubes into buying database software which may very likely become obsolete at any moment in the immediate future. Why would you want to store your "money" in a fragile software system with no protection or safeguards? At least with gold, you won't have someone on the other side of the world capable of breaking into your house remotely and stealing your savings. Here's a recent research paper analysis on Bitcoin and the lightening network: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/01/23/1548238967000/BIS-trolls-bitcoin/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/01/23/1548238967000/BIS-tro... https://www.bis.org/publ/work765.pdf https://www.bis.org/publ/work765.pdf https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2Fadd09a38-cf8e-4b8a-afe8-c159dc5d850d_FINAL.png?source=Alphaville https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
  - r32a_ 8y ago
    No one is under the illusion that Bitcoin is not a human written piece of software. However, the network has a an incredible uptime of 99.9832335764 % since jan 2009 (http://bitcoinuptime.com/ http://bitcoinuptime.com/) Yes, of course. Like all software Bitcoin has bugs, however, none of Bitcoin's bugs has been catastrophic, or else it would have collapsed to $0 and stayed there. The odds of catastrophic bugs still exist but with the most development moved to layer 2, it's hard to see any more changes coming to the core software for the foreseeable future. I'm not saying Bitcoin is perfect and it has many problems. However, the problems you bring up are mostly incorrect. * Mining centralization is an issue. Due to the fact that Mining hardware is currently produced mainly by 1 company. Hopefully, simple economics will change that and larger companies will start making dedicated mining chips. * On chain transaction costs. If the number of transactions on BTC spikes, the fees will also skyrocket. LN is the solution to this problem but the network is still in development. * Confidential transactions (CT) and fungibility. Currently, Bitcoin is not fungible and you must go through several steps in order to clear coin's history. Gold is fungible and so is cash. However Bitcoin devs have been working on CT for some time now and hopefully, we might see an implementation this year and pushed on to the network within the next 2 years. * Push of centralization. Everything naturally trends towards centralization. A centralized bitcoin is useless, no matter how secure the chain is or how stable the software is. The community must reject all centralization efforts so BTC can keep its value To your point that if a catastrophic bug is discovered which enables double spend and/or inflation, the Ethereum community showed that it is possible to hard fork and reverse the chain given unanimous approval by all factions of the network. So if you wake up one day and the network has collapsed due to some bug in Bitcoin Core then Bitcoin's governance system will kick in to save the network. To your point that you think i'm "scamming" you. I couldn't care less if you bought Bitcoin or not, that's the beauty of Bitcoin. No one is forced to use it and no one really cares about what anyone thinks. You can sit there and call everyone a scammer, you can sit there and point out all the problems it has (Like anything man-made is perfect), people can write all the research paper they want about how it will fail HOWEVER, The reality is that the Bitcoin network and ecosystem is thriving and has survived incredible obstacles. The fact that you've pointed out at all the past issues and the fact that it has overcome just says that Bitcoin works! Have a good day sir :)

r32a_ 8y ago

I'm sorry your arguments do not make sense, I recommend you read about the multi-faceted nature of Bitcoin. You have a poorly researched and simplistic view of the topic, which is very common on HN. You are confusing Bitcoin with a payment network like VISA or PayPal. Hacks of exchanges are not related to Bitcoin itself, it is like saying, someone broke into my Gmail account because my password was easily guessed but you say TCP/IP broken. It does not make sense at all! > No customer protection and irreversible transactions = "This is a feature not a bug of bitcoin." Bitcoin has the economic principles of gold. * Pure raw gold has no consumer protection and it is irreversible. * Government cannot give FDIC insurance to gold bars, because governments cannot print gold bars out of thin air. * Unlike gold, Bitcoin is digital, which means it can be sent across borders at a low cost, (Almost free with LN) * You're comparing multiple things (Payment network, economic system, and governance system) with 1 piece of software. if you want to compare payment network features, then you have to compare bitcoin/LN transactions to VISA, PayPal..etc If you want to compare the economic system, then it's mostly Austrian vs Keynesian. If you want to compare governance then it's about libertarian/anarchist/decentralization vs Centralised governance. Unfortunately, you are coming across as very closed minded with same old tired arguments that were laid against bitcoin from inception, because the general population has a poor grasp of what it really is. Have a read of this, it's a bit dated but it's still good, if you want to have a better understanding of what bitcoin is: https://www.coindesk.com/nobody-understands-bitcoin-thats-ok https://www.coindesk.com/nobody-understands-bitcoin-thats-ok

nosuchthing 8y ago
You seem to have no familuarity with software or computer science, and you're intentionally ignoring and evading addressing the issue with the Bitcoin bugs and hacks on BTC client wallet software, which keeps having bugs/hacks in the protocol itself allowing more free Bitcoins to be generated by hackers: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposu... CVE-2010-5141 remote attack can spend anyone's balance CVE-2010-5139 On 15 August 2010 over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. https://www.webcitation.org/6IwX8oDIN https://www.webcitation.org/6IwX8oDIN CVE-2012-2459 2012-05-14 This could be used to fork the blockchain, including deep double-spend attacks. CVE-2013-3219 Attacker can double-spend with 1 confirmation CVE-2018-17144 Multiple double spend bugs allowing a user to send more funds then available in wallet balance. This book offers a more comprehensive and detailed insight into the history and technical details of Bitcoin and the history of those involved within "the Blockchain community": https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/book/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/book/ If you look at the previous comments you keep ignoring the specific points explained against why your claims are disingenuous and naive and repeating the same tired marketing falsehoods in your attempt to convince rubes into buying database software which may very likely become obsolete at any moment in the immediate future. Why would you want to store your "money" in a fragile software system with no protection or safeguards? At least with gold, you won't have someone on the other side of the world capable of breaking into your house remotely and stealing your savings. Here's a recent research paper analysis on Bitcoin and the lightening network: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/01/23/1548238967000/BIS-trolls-bitcoin/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/01/23/1548238967000/BIS-tro... https://www.bis.org/publ/work765.pdf https://www.bis.org/publ/work765.pdf https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2Fadd09a38-cf8e-4b8a-afe8-c159dc5d850d_FINAL.png?source=Alphaville https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
- r32a_ 8y ago
  No one is under the illusion that Bitcoin is not a human written piece of software. However, the network has a an incredible uptime of 99.9832335764 % since jan 2009 (http://bitcoinuptime.com/ http://bitcoinuptime.com/) Yes, of course. Like all software Bitcoin has bugs, however, none of Bitcoin's bugs has been catastrophic, or else it would have collapsed to $0 and stayed there. The odds of catastrophic bugs still exist but with the most development moved to layer 2, it's hard to see any more changes coming to the core software for the foreseeable future. I'm not saying Bitcoin is perfect and it has many problems. However, the problems you bring up are mostly incorrect. * Mining centralization is an issue. Due to the fact that Mining hardware is currently produced mainly by 1 company. Hopefully, simple economics will change that and larger companies will start making dedicated mining chips. * On chain transaction costs. If the number of transactions on BTC spikes, the fees will also skyrocket. LN is the solution to this problem but the network is still in development. * Confidential transactions (CT) and fungibility. Currently, Bitcoin is not fungible and you must go through several steps in order to clear coin's history. Gold is fungible and so is cash. However Bitcoin devs have been working on CT for some time now and hopefully, we might see an implementation this year and pushed on to the network within the next 2 years. * Push of centralization. Everything naturally trends towards centralization. A centralized bitcoin is useless, no matter how secure the chain is or how stable the software is. The community must reject all centralization efforts so BTC can keep its value To your point that if a catastrophic bug is discovered which enables double spend and/or inflation, the Ethereum community showed that it is possible to hard fork and reverse the chain given unanimous approval by all factions of the network. So if you wake up one day and the network has collapsed due to some bug in Bitcoin Core then Bitcoin's governance system will kick in to save the network. To your point that you think i'm "scamming" you. I couldn't care less if you bought Bitcoin or not, that's the beauty of Bitcoin. No one is forced to use it and no one really cares about what anyone thinks. You can sit there and call everyone a scammer, you can sit there and point out all the problems it has (Like anything man-made is perfect), people can write all the research paper they want about how it will fail HOWEVER, The reality is that the Bitcoin network and ecosystem is thriving and has survived incredible obstacles. The fact that you've pointed out at all the past issues and the fact that it has overcome just says that Bitcoin works! Have a good day sir :)