4 ms·

It's a good comparison, but I feel the best comparison is not to a MacBook Pro or Air, but to the Thinkpad X1 Carbon or X280. I haven't used either the Dell, Th

by b3b0p 8y ago

It's a good comparison, but I feel the best comparison is not to a MacBook Pro or Air, but to the Thinkpad X1 Carbon or X280. I haven't used either the Dell, Thinkpad, or the MacBook Air, but I do have the MacBook Pro. I'm mostly concerned about build quality. My experience with Dell is they feel cheap while my last Thinkpad was a tank and I miss it (I ran FreeBSD on it) and loved the nub and keyboard and overall feel.

chappi42 8y ago
I leaned to the Thinkpad X1 Carbon initially but then bought the T480s (i5, 16 GB/24 GB later, 1 TB). Works nicely (so far;)). The XPS 13 is certainly a nice machine also.
krn 8y ago
I agree. Dell XPS 13 is a direct competitor to Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon[1], and is inferior in almost every way (build quality, port selection, keyboard, and screen). In my opinion, Macbooks stand on their own: you either want MacOS with the entire Apple's ecosystem, or you don't. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018-matte-WQHD-i7-Laptop-Review.396706.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018...
- chappi42 8y ago
  ...or you want no longer due to keyboard etc. and have the option to move (to Linux).
- Ayyar 8y ago
  Macbook Pro to X1 Carbon convert. I could not disagree more with you as a developer. - The X1 Carbon lets me use Nvidia GPUs using an eGPU. - It has a much, much better keyboard. On my MBP, I hit this problem: https://youtu.be/4QDsqWkUvXQ https://youtu.be/4QDsqWkUvXQ - The high end models don't force you to get a touchbar. - I love having more port diversity and number of slots vs. the MBP. No dongle life for me. - As an added bonus, I got the X1 Carbon Yoga, which has an OLED display. The display is gorgeous with fabulously dark blacks. The one thing that I miss from the Macbook pro is it has a much better trackpad. But overall, I am very happy with the switch, and it's overly simplistic to just say "Macbooks stand on their own". Though overall, I couldn't be happier with the switch.
  - auggierose 8y ago
    So, how does iOS development work for you on the X1?
    - lugg 8y ago
      It works fine [1]. But if that was important what does the hardware matter? Besides that, how does linux work on your macbook? [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/92unvp/my_guide_for_hackintoshmacos_on_the_thinkpad_x1 https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/92unvp/my_guide_f...
      - auggierose 8y ago
        Hackintosh is not an option for the serious developer.
        lugg 8y ago
        Neither is a mac.
        geoelectric 8y ago
        Yet Macs are overwhelmingly popular in Silicon Valley software companies--to the point where devs not using Windows has become a quality/dogfooding issue for multiplatform apps. Maybe it's because nowadays the platform you code on doesn't really matter if you're not a native app developer? I think Google has swung more towards Linux laptops, but honestly, this, the T or X series from Lenovo, maybe System76 are the only realistic choices I see there personally. And at the end of the day, Linux and Mac offer pretty similar programming experiences.
  - Daneel_ 8y ago
    Interesting - I read the parent comment as saying that the XPS was inferior to the X1, not the other way around. I completely agree that the lenovo is a better laptop, for similar reasons to the ones you've mentioned. I think the 'Macbooks stand on their own' comment is more along the lines of "you either operate in the macOS space, or the 'everything else' space. There isn't much crossover due to the large shift in workflow between macOS and windows". This rings true for me - I have the option of using a mac for work, but I prefer to run windows on a lenovo because the hardware is just better. I can deal with windows 10's quirks, and I just run a VM for all my linux needs - no half-assing it with the BSD terminal in macOS.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
killjoywashere 8y ago
If I recall, the OpenBSD developers mainly use the ThinkPad X1 Carbon. While I understand the merits of supporting everyone's toaster, it would be nice to see an unofficial truce around a couple of key laptop models. If I could get a ThinkPad X1 Carbon or a Dell XPS13 and absolutely know it would work, I would seriously consider moving on from my launch-day original 2012 rMBP. Unfortunately, that's still the best available option for someone who's primary job is something other than writing code but writes code and admins servers sometimes.
- walterbell 8y ago
  QubesOS developers use X1 Carbon.
dlgeek 8y ago
I have one 2 generations behind (XPS 13 9360) and I have to tell you your fears are completely justified. I was a long-time Thinkpad user (had a Z-series, T42, X1 carbon) but switched because the screen was just so pretty. While I was initially very happy, I've had tons of issues around both the build quality and support. When my machine started refusing to charge, my "next day on-site service" extended warranty turned into "you called 20 minutes too late, so it's actually in 2 days" and then "Oh, while we confirmed the appointment time with you, we never did with the tech, we'll find out when they're coming" and then "Oh yeah, they're not actually coming today, you have to take another day off work too". Then, after the tech managed to replace my main board without any ESD protection and it started completely hard locking up every 5 minutes (even in their own diagnostic tool and the EFI setup tool) it took me several days worth of phone calls and emails before they swapped it out. Of course, about a year later, I started having problems with the SECOND laptop they'd sent me and had to send it back to have parts replaced. A few months later, right after the warranty expired, the screen started going crazy. I've found the right place to hit it to fix it whenever that happens (about once a month). Next machine I get, I'm going back to an X1 Carbon.
- turndown 8y ago
  FWIW, I have a 2015 Dell XPS 15 that had the battery start to swell(making the trackpad unusable), I did not get next day service but was able to schedule an appointment where the tech came and fixed it, no charge. All in all I don't regret my purchase and would buy again, I think the screen is still amazing and nobody else seems to want to challenge Dell in the niche they've made.

by b3b0p 8y ago

chappi42 8y ago

I leaned to the Thinkpad X1 Carbon initially but then bought the T480s (i5, 16 GB/24 GB later, 1 TB). Works nicely (so far;)). The XPS 13 is certainly a nice machine also.

krn 8y ago

I agree. Dell XPS 13 is a direct competitor to Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon[1], and is inferior in almost every way (build quality, port selection, keyboard, and screen). In my opinion, Macbooks stand on their own: you either want MacOS with the entire Apple's ecosystem, or you don't. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018-matte-WQHD-i7-Laptop-Review.396706.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018...

chappi42 8y ago
...or you want no longer due to keyboard etc. and have the option to move (to Linux).
Ayyar 8y ago
Macbook Pro to X1 Carbon convert. I could not disagree more with you as a developer. - The X1 Carbon lets me use Nvidia GPUs using an eGPU. - It has a much, much better keyboard. On my MBP, I hit this problem: https://youtu.be/4QDsqWkUvXQ https://youtu.be/4QDsqWkUvXQ - The high end models don't force you to get a touchbar. - I love having more port diversity and number of slots vs. the MBP. No dongle life for me. - As an added bonus, I got the X1 Carbon Yoga, which has an OLED display. The display is gorgeous with fabulously dark blacks. The one thing that I miss from the Macbook pro is it has a much better trackpad. But overall, I am very happy with the switch, and it's overly simplistic to just say "Macbooks stand on their own". Though overall, I couldn't be happier with the switch.
- auggierose 8y ago
  So, how does iOS development work for you on the X1?
  - lugg 8y ago
    It works fine [1]. But if that was important what does the hardware matter? Besides that, how does linux work on your macbook? [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/92unvp/my_guide_for_hackintoshmacos_on_the_thinkpad_x1 https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/92unvp/my_guide_f...
    - auggierose 8y ago
      Hackintosh is not an option for the serious developer.
      - lugg 8y ago
        Neither is a mac.
        geoelectric 8y ago
        Yet Macs are overwhelmingly popular in Silicon Valley software companies--to the point where devs not using Windows has become a quality/dogfooding issue for multiplatform apps. Maybe it's because nowadays the platform you code on doesn't really matter if you're not a native app developer? I think Google has swung more towards Linux laptops, but honestly, this, the T or X series from Lenovo, maybe System76 are the only realistic choices I see there personally. And at the end of the day, Linux and Mac offer pretty similar programming experiences.
- Daneel_ 8y ago
  Interesting - I read the parent comment as saying that the XPS was inferior to the X1, not the other way around. I completely agree that the lenovo is a better laptop, for similar reasons to the ones you've mentioned. I think the 'Macbooks stand on their own' comment is more along the lines of "you either operate in the macOS space, or the 'everything else' space. There isn't much crossover due to the large shift in workflow between macOS and windows". This rings true for me - I have the option of using a mac for work, but I prefer to run windows on a lenovo because the hardware is just better. I can deal with windows 10's quirks, and I just run a VM for all my linux needs - no half-assing it with the BSD terminal in macOS.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

killjoywashere 8y ago

If I recall, the OpenBSD developers mainly use the ThinkPad X1 Carbon. While I understand the merits of supporting everyone's toaster, it would be nice to see an unofficial truce around a couple of key laptop models. If I could get a ThinkPad X1 Carbon or a Dell XPS13 and absolutely know it would work, I would seriously consider moving on from my launch-day original 2012 rMBP. Unfortunately, that's still the best available option for someone who's primary job is something other than writing code but writes code and admins servers sometimes.

walterbell 8y ago
QubesOS developers use X1 Carbon.

dlgeek 8y ago

I have one 2 generations behind (XPS 13 9360) and I have to tell you your fears are completely justified. I was a long-time Thinkpad user (had a Z-series, T42, X1 carbon) but switched because the screen was just so pretty. While I was initially very happy, I've had tons of issues around both the build quality and support. When my machine started refusing to charge, my "next day on-site service" extended warranty turned into "you called 20 minutes too late, so it's actually in 2 days" and then "Oh, while we confirmed the appointment time with you, we never did with the tech, we'll find out when they're coming" and then "Oh yeah, they're not actually coming today, you have to take another day off work too". Then, after the tech managed to replace my main board without any ESD protection and it started completely hard locking up every 5 minutes (even in their own diagnostic tool and the EFI setup tool) it took me several days worth of phone calls and emails before they swapped it out. Of course, about a year later, I started having problems with the SECOND laptop they'd sent me and had to send it back to have parts replaced. A few months later, right after the warranty expired, the screen started going crazy. I've found the right place to hit it to fix it whenever that happens (about once a month). Next machine I get, I'm going back to an X1 Carbon.

turndown 8y ago
FWIW, I have a 2015 Dell XPS 15 that had the battery start to swell(making the trackpad unusable), I did not get next day service but was able to schedule an appointment where the tech came and fixed it, no charge. All in all I don't regret my purchase and would buy again, I think the screen is still amazing and nobody else seems to want to challenge Dell in the niche they've made.