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I'd agree that ICE is an important part of the government and that illegal immigration is a problem, but that doesn't excuse other things that ICE has done such

I'd agree that ICE is an important part of the government and that illegal immigration is a problem, but that doesn't excuse other things that ICE has done such as separating children from their parents: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621065383/what-we-know-family-separation-and-zero-tolerance-at-the-border https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621065383/what-we-know-family...

bargl 8y ago
You are correct in saying that we shouldn't forgive what they've done wrong but also shouldn't discard the organization as a whole as evil. I'd say that this evil falls squarely on the legislators who have ignored it for as long as they have. It's a problem that needs to be addressed not used for political advantage. We need ICE (maybe not in it's current form) but we need someone to protect our borders. How we protect our borders is up to legislators to determine. This doesn't mean that individuals doing this aren't responsible as well but it's also a systemic problem at this point.
stcredzero 8y ago
Those parents are in jail. That's what detainment is. If people go to jail domestically, then the kids go back to their home or stay with relatives. In the situation ICE has to deal with, those aren't options. This makes me wonder what other countries do in this case. According to the NPR article, there was separation under the Obama administration, but the policy was changed to allow families to stay together.
- ball_of_lint 8y ago
  > According to the NPR article, there was separation under the Obama administration, but the policy was changed to allow families to stay together. I don't know where you got that from, but it's not in the article I linked. The article specifically states: > The Obama administration established family detention centers that kept families together while their cases were processed. Other sources tell me that the Obama administration did separate some families in extreme cases such as a parent carrying drugs. But all that is besides the point. I've made no claims about Obama. The point here is that ICE has done things that were worth protesting against: systematically and needlessly separating children from their families.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    > According to the NPR article, there was separation under the Obama administration, but the policy was changed to allow families to stay together. I don't know where you got that from, but it's not in the article I linked. The article specifically states: > The Obama administration established family detention centers that kept families together while their cases were processed. Whoa. You just repeated what I said while pretending I didn't say it. (A bit of partisan bias?) If they established family detention centers, that means there was a need for such new facilities. Unless the establishment happened at the oath of office, this would corroborate what I said. https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/ https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administrati... Jeh Johnson, DHS secretary under the Obama administration, told NPR earlier this month that he couldn’t say that family separations “never happened” during his tenure. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child. I can’t say it never happened but not as a matter of policy or practice. Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before. “At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.” From the original NPR article cited: Child immigrant shelters. Within three days, children are supposed to be transferred from immigration detention to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. For 15 years, ORR has handled the "care and placement" of unaccompanied migrant children. Until recently, that usually meant minors who crossed into the U.S. alone. Now it also includes children who have been separated from their families by authorities, including much younger children. On a call with reporters on Tuesday, a Border Patrol official said that it's a matter of "discretion" how young is too young for a child to be separated from their parents. In general, he said, the age of 5 has been used as a benchmark, with children younger than that called "tender-aged." The CEO of Southwest Key, which operates 26 ORR shelters, tells NPR the children at his facilities range from ages "zero to 17." I never said that under the Obama administration that there was mass separation. Evidently, practices of separation existed in some situations under previous administrations, evidently going back at least 15 years, and there were policy changes to have less separation. This is what I stated.
ReptileMan 8y ago
The kids were brought by their parents. Not ICE. So ICE has to solve the situation without giving incentives to people to continue coming. Not an easy situation to solve. Don't forget the policies must also have the effects of deterrents.

bargl 8y ago

You are correct in saying that we shouldn't forgive what they've done wrong but also shouldn't discard the organization as a whole as evil. I'd say that this evil falls squarely on the legislators who have ignored it for as long as they have. It's a problem that needs to be addressed not used for political advantage. We need ICE (maybe not in it's current form) but we need someone to protect our borders. How we protect our borders is up to legislators to determine. This doesn't mean that individuals doing this aren't responsible as well but it's also a systemic problem at this point.

stcredzero 8y ago

Those parents are in jail. That's what detainment is. If people go to jail domestically, then the kids go back to their home or stay with relatives. In the situation ICE has to deal with, those aren't options. This makes me wonder what other countries do in this case. According to the NPR article, there was separation under the Obama administration, but the policy was changed to allow families to stay together.

ball_of_lint 8y ago
> According to the NPR article, there was separation under the Obama administration, but the policy was changed to allow families to stay together. I don't know where you got that from, but it's not in the article I linked. The article specifically states: > The Obama administration established family detention centers that kept families together while their cases were processed. Other sources tell me that the Obama administration did separate some families in extreme cases such as a parent carrying drugs. But all that is besides the point. I've made no claims about Obama. The point here is that ICE has done things that were worth protesting against: systematically and needlessly separating children from their families.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  > According to the NPR article, there was separation under the Obama administration, but the policy was changed to allow families to stay together. I don't know where you got that from, but it's not in the article I linked. The article specifically states: > The Obama administration established family detention centers that kept families together while their cases were processed. Whoa. You just repeated what I said while pretending I didn't say it. (A bit of partisan bias?) If they established family detention centers, that means there was a need for such new facilities. Unless the establishment happened at the oath of office, this would corroborate what I said. https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/ https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administrati... Jeh Johnson, DHS secretary under the Obama administration, told NPR earlier this month that he couldn’t say that family separations “never happened” during his tenure. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child. I can’t say it never happened but not as a matter of policy or practice. Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before. “At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.” From the original NPR article cited: Child immigrant shelters. Within three days, children are supposed to be transferred from immigration detention to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. For 15 years, ORR has handled the "care and placement" of unaccompanied migrant children. Until recently, that usually meant minors who crossed into the U.S. alone. Now it also includes children who have been separated from their families by authorities, including much younger children. On a call with reporters on Tuesday, a Border Patrol official said that it's a matter of "discretion" how young is too young for a child to be separated from their parents. In general, he said, the age of 5 has been used as a benchmark, with children younger than that called "tender-aged." The CEO of Southwest Key, which operates 26 ORR shelters, tells NPR the children at his facilities range from ages "zero to 17." I never said that under the Obama administration that there was mass separation. Evidently, practices of separation existed in some situations under previous administrations, evidently going back at least 15 years, and there were policy changes to have less separation. This is what I stated.

ReptileMan 8y ago

The kids were brought by their parents. Not ICE. So ICE has to solve the situation without giving incentives to people to continue coming. Not an easy situation to solve. Don't forget the policies must also have the effects of deterrents.