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Why? What's wrong with not letting them come in the first place? It would create more opportunities for people already here, and increase demand for education

by tux1968 8y ago

Why? What's wrong with not letting them come in the first place? It would create more opportunities for people already here, and increase demand for education that leads into this career.

davidw 8y ago
> It would create more opportunities for people already here, and increase demand for education that leads into this career. You're wrong on both counts, because the economy is not a fixed-size pie. Higher education benefits a lot from foreign students paying full price. This is fairly settled economics.
- tux1968 8y ago
  Oracle only has so many position to offer, if they're going to H1B applicants, they are not going to other people already looking for jobs here. The fairly settled economics of supply and demand say that having all those extra workers will drive wages down. At the very least, let's shut it down for a while and see how things go. It's not like it's a decision fixed in stone.
  - davidw 8y ago
    > At the very least, let's shut it down for a while and see how things go. It's not like it's a decision fixed in stone. Sure, let's also let some of the passengers fly the plane because hey, they did it in a video game. Learn about it before you go and try and wreck the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-06-16/immigrants-don-t-steal-from-americans-paychecks https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-06-16/immigr...
    - tux1968 8y ago
      These economists can't even predict the past, and you're throwing around these slogans like they're laws of nature. And slowing down H1B visas will not "wreck the system", that's just hyperbole; it can be restarted any time. Anyway, the resolution of this Oracle case will be revealing. It will be interesting to see how it affects H1B policy.
      - davidw 8y ago
        Actually what I did was link to several articles which include a lot of reference materials, but as the saying goes: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Here are a few more https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2016/10/02/3-reasons-why-immigrants-key-to-economic-growth/#1b10d84b7dab https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2016/10/02/3-rea... https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/21819/concepts/lump-of-labour-fallacy-immigration/ https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/21819/concepts/lump-of-la... https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/02/the_lump_of_lab.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/02/the_lump_of_lab.htm... https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/how-immigration-affects-workers-two-wrong-models-right-one https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/how-immigration-... https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/07/opinion/lumps-of-labor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/07/opinion/lumps-of-labor.ht... When CATO and Paul Krugman agree on something, MAYBE it's worth paying attention.

Why? What's wrong with not letting them come in the first place? It would create more opportunities for people already here, and increase demand for education that leads into this career.

davidw 8y ago

> It would create more opportunities for people already here, and increase demand for education that leads into this career. You're wrong on both counts, because the economy is not a fixed-size pie. Higher education benefits a lot from foreign students paying full price. This is fairly settled economics.

tux1968 8y ago
Oracle only has so many position to offer, if they're going to H1B applicants, they are not going to other people already looking for jobs here. The fairly settled economics of supply and demand say that having all those extra workers will drive wages down. At the very least, let's shut it down for a while and see how things go. It's not like it's a decision fixed in stone.
- davidw 8y ago
  > At the very least, let's shut it down for a while and see how things go. It's not like it's a decision fixed in stone. Sure, let's also let some of the passengers fly the plane because hey, they did it in a video game. Learn about it before you go and try and wreck the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-06-16/immigrants-don-t-steal-from-americans-paychecks https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-06-16/immigr...
  - tux1968 8y ago
    These economists can't even predict the past, and you're throwing around these slogans like they're laws of nature. And slowing down H1B visas will not "wreck the system", that's just hyperbole; it can be restarted any time. Anyway, the resolution of this Oracle case will be revealing. It will be interesting to see how it affects H1B policy.
    - davidw 8y ago
      Actually what I did was link to several articles which include a lot of reference materials, but as the saying goes: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Here are a few more https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2016/10/02/3-reasons-why-immigrants-key-to-economic-growth/#1b10d84b7dab https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2016/10/02/3-rea... https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/21819/concepts/lump-of-labour-fallacy-immigration/ https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/21819/concepts/lump-of-la... https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/02/the_lump_of_lab.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/02/the_lump_of_lab.htm... https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/how-immigration-affects-workers-two-wrong-models-right-one https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fall-2017/how-immigration-... https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/07/opinion/lumps-of-labor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/07/opinion/lumps-of-labor.ht... When CATO and Paul Krugman agree on something, MAYBE it's worth paying attention.