5 ms·

representatively fair first and foremost, with procedurally fair and utilitarianism at 2nd and 3rd priorities This sounds like a description of Harvard's admis

representatively fair first and foremost, with procedurally fair and utilitarianism at 2nd and 3rd priorities This sounds like a description of Harvard's admission policies with regards to Asians.

ptd 8y ago
Are Asians underrepresented at Harvard? Or if you’re referring to something else, can you elobarate?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Are Asians underrepresented at Harvard? Or if you’re referring to something else, can you elobarate? (sic) If you re-read my comment, it's clear that I'm not talking about rates of representation. You are trying to bring that in. We're talking about the process, be it a policy implementation or an algorithm. It's the age-old "equality of outcome" vs. "equality of opportunity." https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Berge...
  - ptd 8y ago
    I wasn’t trying to bring anything in, simply curious exactly what you meant. You’re right though, if I had read you comment more closely I would have realized my question was irrelevant. Thanks for the link.
- waterhouse 8y ago
  As I understand it, Asians are "underrepresented" at Harvard relative to what they would be if Harvard judged candidates based on SAT scores, scholastic achievement, and other seemingly-objective-and-reasonably-sensible metrics. They're "underrepresented" relative to the pool of candidates who are qualified to be at Harvard. But they are "overrepresented" compared to the general population of the United States. Which comparison is the right one?
  - deogeo 8y ago
    Surely their high SAT scores and over-representation at Harvard compared to the general population are both caused by some heretofore unidentified analogue of white-privilege - what other explanation is there?
    - yourbandsucks 8y ago
      'Surely'? Why must it 'surely' fit into a preconceived ideological straightjacket? (One who's adherents are like 90% white, FWIW). The answer is that asian immigrants are a self-selected subset of 1.5B asians in asia. The social justice mental toolkit doesn't have an answer to this anomaly. American census numbers and the assumption of a normal distribution within them don't square with the highly-motivated subset of Asians who immigrated.
      - a1369209993 8y ago
        I think deogeo was being sarcastic, though see also Poe's law.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Given that: 1) Cultural factors often raise people from poor to middle class 2) The above often happens with little monetary input 3) Culture is transmissible In contrast, giving people money and resources has a very poor track record for increasing wealth long term. Why aren't social justice people all about the transmission of wealth building cultural knowledge? If anything, on the whole, they seem ideologically in favor of policies that erode the transmission of wealth building cultural knowledge.
        yourbandsucks 8y ago
        I hope you're not asking me, because I don't understand the social justice people at all. My guess is a combination of social media obsession and limited life experience cause them to optimize for 'sounding woke' over 'things that help real people'.
      - 8y ago

representatively fair first and foremost, with procedurally fair and utilitarianism at 2nd and 3rd priorities This sounds like a description of Harvard's admission policies with regards to Asians.

ptd 8y ago

Are Asians underrepresented at Harvard? Or if you’re referring to something else, can you elobarate?

stcredzero 8y ago
Are Asians underrepresented at Harvard? Or if you’re referring to something else, can you elobarate? (sic) If you re-read my comment, it's clear that I'm not talking about rates of representation. You are trying to bring that in. We're talking about the process, be it a policy implementation or an algorithm. It's the age-old "equality of outcome" vs. "equality of opportunity." https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Berge...
- ptd 8y ago
  I wasn’t trying to bring anything in, simply curious exactly what you meant. You’re right though, if I had read you comment more closely I would have realized my question was irrelevant. Thanks for the link.
waterhouse 8y ago
As I understand it, Asians are "underrepresented" at Harvard relative to what they would be if Harvard judged candidates based on SAT scores, scholastic achievement, and other seemingly-objective-and-reasonably-sensible metrics. They're "underrepresented" relative to the pool of candidates who are qualified to be at Harvard. But they are "overrepresented" compared to the general population of the United States. Which comparison is the right one?
- deogeo 8y ago
  Surely their high SAT scores and over-representation at Harvard compared to the general population are both caused by some heretofore unidentified analogue of white-privilege - what other explanation is there?
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    'Surely'? Why must it 'surely' fit into a preconceived ideological straightjacket? (One who's adherents are like 90% white, FWIW). The answer is that asian immigrants are a self-selected subset of 1.5B asians in asia. The social justice mental toolkit doesn't have an answer to this anomaly. American census numbers and the assumption of a normal distribution within them don't square with the highly-motivated subset of Asians who immigrated.
    - a1369209993 8y ago
      I think deogeo was being sarcastic, though see also Poe's law.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Given that: 1) Cultural factors often raise people from poor to middle class 2) The above often happens with little monetary input 3) Culture is transmissible In contrast, giving people money and resources has a very poor track record for increasing wealth long term. Why aren't social justice people all about the transmission of wealth building cultural knowledge? If anything, on the whole, they seem ideologically in favor of policies that erode the transmission of wealth building cultural knowledge.
      - yourbandsucks 8y ago
        I hope you're not asking me, because I don't understand the social justice people at all. My guess is a combination of social media obsession and limited life experience cause them to optimize for 'sounding woke' over 'things that help real people'.
    - 8y ago