4 ms·
Tired of TSA body scans and groping? Things you can do
- jdp23 16y agoWith links to incident report forms from EPIC and ACLU.
- lukeqsee 16y agoA few more ways: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1898153 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1898153
- geophile 16y agoDumb question: Suppose you opt out and get groped. What happens if you report the incident to whatever police force has jurisdiction at the airport? (City cops?)
- lukeqsee 16y agoMost likely nothing: you opted for it.
- geophile 16y agoI opted for a security check, not sexual assault.
- lukeqsee 16y agoUnfortunately, for the TSA that is a security check. And you opted for a TSA security check; they get to define the rules since they are the federal government agency. Though it would be interesting to see the outcome if you did report it.
- jdp23 16y agoFirst of all while I am not a big fan of TSA, let's be fair to them: they've got policies that strictly prohibit sexually assaulting travelers.
- jdp23 16y agothat's incorrect. you've agreed to be searched in accordance with TSA's procedures. that doesn't mean you've given up your rights. if you are groped or harassed or otherwise sexually assaulted, you can complain to the agent's supervisor or call the cops. like i said above i'm not sure what the best thing to do is but there certainly are options. edit: i'm very curious why this comment was downvoted ...
- lukeqsee 16y agoRight. They could take the "opting" act and claim it was giving up of rights (pertaining to the search)? (I'm curious why it was downvoted too.)
- jdp23 16y agoi don't think anybody would see the choice of an enhanced patdown as giving up rights but then again i am not a lawyer. also what's happening in this kind of situation is that somebody's accusing a law enforcement agent of molesting her in a place where there might be conflicting jurisdictions, so the interpersonal aspects could be tricky.
- lukeqsee 16y agoPrecisely. It would be interesting to see a lawyer's take on it.
- asmithmd1 16y agoTSA agents are not law enforcement officers, they have no power of arrest. They are the same as airline ticket agents; they can deny or grant you boarding but they certainly will not use force to do that -- they call a police officer whenever force is needed.
- jdp23 16y agoaha, at least one person is downvoting as part of a campaign to bury stories about body scanners as off-topic for HN. well there ya go.
- asmithmd1 16y agoThat is why they tell you what they are going to do before they do. If you object they will stop and ask you, "Do you want to fly today?" So every step of the way you have opted in. I will be traveling with my 4 year old and 6 year old daughters and I am genuinely conflicted about which option to choose for my daughters: Unknown dosage of Xray radiation with un-tested effects on growing bodies, or groping by a stranger. The ideal outcome from my perspective of challenging this terrible situation would be to have them start screaming "Bad Touch!" at the top of their lungs when they were groped. But I think it is un-fair to them to train them to do that.
- jambo 16y agoHow Kafkaesque[1]. To fly, you must "choose" either naked x-ray photography or molestation by agents of the government. Don't say flying is a privilege. Where else should I have to sacrifice one right to exercise another? The 1st amendment to the US constitution implies a right to travel, and the 9th clarifies that the enumeration of rights is not exclusive. [1] This is not the only example of the TSA borrowing from Kafka. The TSA employs secret directives, reminiscent of Kafka's Before The Law. The Supreme Court supported this secrecy in reviewing these documents in camera in Gilmore vs. Gonzales.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jdp23 16y agoit's not a dumb question at all. i'm not sure what's the best thing to do in this case, but i will try to find out and add it as a comment here and on her post. thanks for asking.
- jcromartie 16y agoI hate the term "opt out" applied to this issue. You shouldn't have to "opt out" of something that is pretty clearly a violation of our constitutional rights (4th amendment at the very least) as citizens.
- jdp23 16y agobelated answer: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1912462 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1912462
- jseliger 16y agoI've seen some of these stories, and I have one idea that might at least make the TSA goons more uncomfortable than you, at least if you're male: act like you like it. Say things to the guy doing it like, "Damn, girl, you have a nice touch," or "I usually have to pay $200 for services like this, but you'll do it free!" Most people, especially guys, are extremely uncomfortable around gay guys. I'm straight, but I have to do some flying in December and have thought about doing this (in addition to the kinds of things listed). Has anyone tried something similar?
- bedris 16y agoThis is the stupidest idea I've ever heard.
- daeken 16y agoThis is being upvoted? Really? This sort of completely negative, non-constructive comment on HN bothers me a bit. If you dislike an idea, say why you dislike it, don't just say "this is dumb", or words to that effect. I don't agree with the idea either, but this is HN, not Slashdot/Reddit/Digg/whatever.
- jgrahamc 16y agoI'm tired of HN stories about the TSA.
- tomjen3 16y agoAgreed, but on the other hand I just simply hope that they become so hated in the hacker community that they will stop flying and embrace the online presence fully.
- lukeqsee 16y agoHonest question: why?
- davidw 16y agoBecause it's not the proper forum for it. You have N sites on the internet where you can talk about the TSA / tasers / politics / whatever to your heart's content. Please stop spamming one of the few good sites about startups and hacking with this stuff.
- lukeqsee 16y agoThanks for the answers (both davidw & jgrahamc). (I expected getting downvoted out of existence.) Points are totally understood and taken to heart. Thanks for clarifying.
- jgrahamc 16y agoBecause I think it's irrelevant to HN. These stories are all over Reddit and you can go and read about the TSA there. If the stories here were a discussion of technical aspects of the TSA equipment or procedures I'd be interested. But most appear to be scare stories (the rape victim one). Also, I don't care about the TSA for two reasons: firstly I'm not in the US and the TSA is an internal US body and secondly it doesn't bother me if someone sees a weird black and white picture of me naked. And I don't want HN to be consumed with a single issue with story after story because then it becomes another site where political/social stories are aired.
- 16y ago
- wccrawford 16y agoHas anyone tried to insist on someone of the opposite gender for their molestation? I'd much rather have a girl grope me than a guy, but I have no idea if they'd allow that. But then, I have no idea if they'd allow it because I haven't taken a plane flight since they started all the pointless rules. Security is okay, but these pointless rules aren't helping at all, and I refuse to go through them.