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This topic is of course ripe for a flame war, but what I think is almost always missing from this discussion is that not all "elite" rich people are all the sam

This topic is of course ripe for a flame war, but what I think is almost always missing from this discussion is that not all "elite" rich people are all the same. How people got and use their wealth is very important in the consideration on whether or not "income inequality destroys the social fabric of a community". Paul Graham's essay "How to make wealth"[1] is a great read on this topic. One of the key values that emerged in the West was that if the people with the power of violence in society do not just take everything from the productive people, the whole society becomes much better off. The people who take by force, the rentiers, the rich who steal by fraud, the ones who just spend their days on yachts and luxurious island estates eating caviar and drinking champagne, these rich elites should be scorned and reviled. We should strive to make laws to punish them and take their wealth and power. But we do want inequality in the amount of society's assets that can be accessed by people. Hard working people who have the skills, talents, networks, drive, etc. to get important, very difficult, things accomplished should have access to greater wealth so they can do great things for society. Musk created and is the leader of SpaceX that is building reusable rockets. He also spends a great deal of time and effort running Tesla, which made the first great electric cars and is forcing positive change on the whole automobile industry. Jobs and Wozniak built and sold great personal computers. Gates may have been a bit of an asshole when running Microsoft, but he was part of bringing computers to the masses and he seems to be really interested to doing good in the world. A billionaire who has almost all of their productive assets tied up in productive activities in which they are a critical component, can do great good. They are not consuming but producing. Look for people who strive to produce win-win situations. A free market system (a system where people are free to trade with anyone else) with a strong rule of law and allowing people to keep what others give them seems to work pretty well. 80% income tax rates are not a good idea (and shouldn't we really tax wealth and not income, if we want to get rid of the idle rich?). It does not seem to me that governments will spend assets better than the best of the wealthy elite, just move it to someone that is much more unaccountable. One should remember that there are hierarchies that are built on competency and cooperation as opposed to those built on the power of violence. We should support the former and tear down the later. A hard problem, but a least something better to strive for then just generic "tax the rich" refrain. [1]http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html

privateprofile 8y ago
> It does not seem to me that governments will spend assets better than the best of the wealthy elite, just move it to someone that is much more unaccountable. It seems to me that history shows that a wealthy "elite" will spend assets in order to, directly or indirectly, increase its own wealth; and will do this without answering to anyone, many times not even the Law. Whereas a democratically elected government will/should spend assets to increase its society/voters' wealth, and answers to its voters regarding how their money is spent. What's tough about this system is that it requires voters and taxpayers to be active in monitoring their government.
socrates1998 8y ago
Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and all the other brilliant entrepreneurs that propel our society into the future are most often not motivated by money. Elon clearly doesn't give a shit about his money. He only wants to own and control his companies. His wealth is simply a byproduct of that. Capping billionaire wealth won't stop innovation. If you just let them control their companies, then they probably will work just as hard if you take away their money over a billion dollars. It will help to stop the growing inequality that will continue to destroy our society. The government is controlled by the wealthy elite, so I don't get your point. Their job should be just to redistribute wealth with (ideally) an universal basic income. But, the elites don't want that because it's too simple. Basic income redistribution scares the hell out of them and they will destroy the country rather than give up their beach house. While I respect Paul Graham's career and his abilities as an entrepreneur (I mean we are doing this on Hacker News), I am always very skeptical of wealthy people talking about "How to get wealthy". And his essay isn't bad, but it's still coming from a place of insane success, much of it not duplicatable for 99% of the people even in such a opportunistic place like Silicon Valley (I know he addresses this randomness of success in his essay). The wealthy elite will ruin this country. Look at our president. The asshole is walking example of shitty capitalism at it's worst. He is literally the leader of our country.
patricius 8y ago
> The people who take by force, the rentiers, the rich who steal by fraud, the ones who just spend their days on yachts and luxurious island estates eating caviar and drinking champagne, these rich elites should be scorned and reviled. We should strive to make laws to punish them and take their wealth and power. Of course someone stealing or defrauding needs to be punished, but what's wrong with eating caviar and drinking champagne on a yacht in general? :-D

privateprofile 8y ago

> It does not seem to me that governments will spend assets better than the best of the wealthy elite, just move it to someone that is much more unaccountable. It seems to me that history shows that a wealthy "elite" will spend assets in order to, directly or indirectly, increase its own wealth; and will do this without answering to anyone, many times not even the Law. Whereas a democratically elected government will/should spend assets to increase its society/voters' wealth, and answers to its voters regarding how their money is spent. What's tough about this system is that it requires voters and taxpayers to be active in monitoring their government.

socrates1998 8y ago

Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and all the other brilliant entrepreneurs that propel our society into the future are most often not motivated by money. Elon clearly doesn't give a shit about his money. He only wants to own and control his companies. His wealth is simply a byproduct of that. Capping billionaire wealth won't stop innovation. If you just let them control their companies, then they probably will work just as hard if you take away their money over a billion dollars. It will help to stop the growing inequality that will continue to destroy our society. The government is controlled by the wealthy elite, so I don't get your point. Their job should be just to redistribute wealth with (ideally) an universal basic income. But, the elites don't want that because it's too simple. Basic income redistribution scares the hell out of them and they will destroy the country rather than give up their beach house. While I respect Paul Graham's career and his abilities as an entrepreneur (I mean we are doing this on Hacker News), I am always very skeptical of wealthy people talking about "How to get wealthy". And his essay isn't bad, but it's still coming from a place of insane success, much of it not duplicatable for 99% of the people even in such a opportunistic place like Silicon Valley (I know he addresses this randomness of success in his essay). The wealthy elite will ruin this country. Look at our president. The asshole is walking example of shitty capitalism at it's worst. He is literally the leader of our country.

patricius 8y ago

> The people who take by force, the rentiers, the rich who steal by fraud, the ones who just spend their days on yachts and luxurious island estates eating caviar and drinking champagne, these rich elites should be scorned and reviled. We should strive to make laws to punish them and take their wealth and power. Of course someone stealing or defrauding needs to be punished, but what's wrong with eating caviar and drinking champagne on a yacht in general? :-D