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The way I see it, our over-dependency (sorry for overloading the phrase) on Javascript as the de-facto web language has the pendulum far in one direction. How m

The way I see it, our over-dependency (sorry for overloading the phrase) on Javascript as the de-facto web language has the pendulum far in one direction. How much longer can we keep this up? What's the maximum capacity of a developer ecosystem before dependency-hell and framework churn reaches critical mass? This is still a complicated information system - how far can it scale? What's the breaking point? There's so much amateur work and muddied merit-sense-making of what's good software, who to listen to, and how to move forward - my feeling is that pendulum is just about at peak.

k__ 8y ago
For me this sounds like FUD. Sure, you can install a bunch of deps for every small problem, but you don't have to. If you just take a bit time to think, you can roll your own solution for 90% of the deps, which are tiny packages anyway.
- mrdoops 8y ago
  But what of the newbie developer? Is he/she going to just roll their own dependencies and do so in a way that's tenable? Green developers make up most of the category. I guess I was trying to approach a few concerns beyond just dependencies: learning curve, conventions/standards, framework volatility, and merit assess-ability of ideas. The more people involved (popularity), the greater the difficulty to parse the merit of an idea without pre-existing competence. How easy is it for a new developer to find a cogent way of doing things in Javascript land compared to a smaller more specific ecosystem? In the smaller ecosystem the experts are easier to determine due to a smaller population, whereas in Javascript-land there's so many people, opinions, articles, and conventional disparities; a much more challenging exercise.
  - k__ 8y ago
    In PHP people would (often badly) reinvent the wheel on every project. In JS people would install packages for every small problem they have. Neither is good. I always check if I can write it myself in reasonable time, if not, I install a package for it. I'd install React, but I'd write the navigation myself. I'd install a video-player, but I'd write a SVG animation myself. etc.
LandR 8y ago
This sounds like a problem pretty unique to Javascript, honestly. I think if you saw a professional C++/C#/F#/LISP*/Clojure dev etc pulling in a dependency to do IsOdd you'd rightly laugh at them... Yet in JS, that just seems like an acceptable thing to do. I don't understand why the standard is so low. Is it because of all these learn Javascript / Web development in 12 weeks bootcamps?

k__ 8y ago

For me this sounds like FUD. Sure, you can install a bunch of deps for every small problem, but you don't have to. If you just take a bit time to think, you can roll your own solution for 90% of the deps, which are tiny packages anyway.

mrdoops 8y ago
But what of the newbie developer? Is he/she going to just roll their own dependencies and do so in a way that's tenable? Green developers make up most of the category. I guess I was trying to approach a few concerns beyond just dependencies: learning curve, conventions/standards, framework volatility, and merit assess-ability of ideas. The more people involved (popularity), the greater the difficulty to parse the merit of an idea without pre-existing competence. How easy is it for a new developer to find a cogent way of doing things in Javascript land compared to a smaller more specific ecosystem? In the smaller ecosystem the experts are easier to determine due to a smaller population, whereas in Javascript-land there's so many people, opinions, articles, and conventional disparities; a much more challenging exercise.
- k__ 8y ago
  In PHP people would (often badly) reinvent the wheel on every project. In JS people would install packages for every small problem they have. Neither is good. I always check if I can write it myself in reasonable time, if not, I install a package for it. I'd install React, but I'd write the navigation myself. I'd install a video-player, but I'd write a SVG animation myself. etc.

LandR 8y ago

This sounds like a problem pretty unique to Javascript, honestly. I think if you saw a professional C++/C#/F#/LISP*/Clojure dev etc pulling in a dependency to do IsOdd you'd rightly laugh at them... Yet in JS, that just seems like an acceptable thing to do. I don't understand why the standard is so low. Is it because of all these learn Javascript / Web development in 12 weeks bootcamps?