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Una Corda, a piano with one string per note
- gus_massa 8y agoWhy is this better than a traditional piano (that has ¿3? strings per note)?
- camtarn 8y agoIt's not better, necessarily, but it's a very different sound. For higher notes you need thinner and shorter strings, which are quieter. Traditional pianos have different numbers of strings per note (one for bass notes, two for the mid-range, and three for treble notes) so that the notes sound roughly the same volume across the keyboard. This also gives a very rich tone, as the strings are very very slightly different in frequency. The Una Corda only has one string per note. It's probably a lot quieter in the high octaves, but it has a thin and very pure tone which doesn't sound a lot like a traditional piano, which is very appealing to people who are looking for new and interesting sounds. And the quietness doesn't matter so much with modern amplification technology.
- saalweachter 8y agoSo basically if you want something similar on the cheap, take an old piano, remove the extra strings, open up the cabinet?
- Quequau 8y agoI'm willing to bet that nothing to do with pianos is that simple. Who knows what sort of weird distortions that would cause.
- saalweachter 8y agoYeah, I originally wrote that as "the same thing" and then thought for a moment and scaled back to "something similar" :-P
- holri 8y agoNo just press the left pedal of a grand piano, called the una corda pedal. It shifts the keyboard so that the hammers hit only one or two strings instead of 2 or 3. And open the lid.
- iainmerrick 8y agoThat’s not quite the same because the extra strings still resonate. But yeah, it has the same name for a reason.
- adrianmonk 8y agoOr stick foam / felt between the "extra" strings like a piano tuner does. It won't totally take the strings out of the equation, but it's non-destructive, and it will probably only take a few minutes.
- KaiserPro 8y agoYou'll need to soften up the hammers as well. If you break down the sound of a piano (mentally) the start of the note is sharp and sudden, followed by a hum. The extra strings are never actually perfectly in tune, which is partly why a piano sounds "bright" If it were a person it'd sound a bit nasally. (the more out of tune the strings the more honky tonk and wobbly it sounds) rough guide: a concert piano sounds like a nasal person making an "EEEEGGHHHHHHHH" noise, but with a smile. (well a Steinway does) A softened piano, or a Una Corda sounds more like a hhMMMMMmmmmmm. Because it only has one string, and has a less violent hammer action, the sounds is more sinusoidal, so sounds smoother. edit the soundboard also significantly affects the tone, but I can't remember how.
- TheRealPomax 8y agoWhen you play music, you often don't need "better". You need "different". You get used to playing certain things on certain instruments, and so having a different instrument available means you stop playing the things you usually do, and end up exploring things you'd never try or even stumble upon otherwise.
- _red 8y agoCheck out the Native Instruments implementation which includes sound demos: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/una-corda/ https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys...
- hammock 8y agoThank you, that's great!
- trishume 8y agoOh man I actually really enjoy these audio demos as music. Anyone have good suggestions on more music like them? Piano music but in non-classical style with a touch of electronic editing thrown in.
- tomsmeding 8y agoIt makes me think, slightly, of the minecraft sound track (https://youtu.be/bIOiV4d1SVI https://youtu.be/bIOiV4d1SVI). If you haven't listened to that yet, give it a go. :)
- blacksmith_tb 8y agoNils Frahm (namedropped on the NI page linked there because he was involved with making the real Una Corda) is a good place to start, his live shows are fun too.
- atombender 8y agoNils Frahm, the artist in OP's video, is great. His music is a brilliant combination of electronic music with piano. Frahm uses prepared pianos — meaning pianos that have been modified with things like paper or fabric attached to strings/hammers, and with microphones placed in strategic places to capture subtleties that normal recordings don't. (His solo piano pieces are full of lovely creaks and clicks.) Frahm hasn't made an uninteresting album so far. His solo piano album, Screws, is great: https://open.spotify.com/album/2EaigzcT1RHV3ILasIOfJz?si=6ixTmruCSISaKarfKiaEtw https://open.spotify.com/album/2EaigzcT1RHV3ILasIOfJz?si=6ix... His latest, All Melody, is more electronic: https://open.spotify.com/album/43hPjSOlltDtbjltUv24EV?si=Bg7bZxjWSnOTb-EEcopD3Q https://open.spotify.com/album/43hPjSOlltDtbjltUv24EV?si=Bg7... I'm also a big fan of the American composer Luke Howard, who does very much the same thing: https://open.spotify.com/album/3ruy1nBte44Ziwta8Agu27?si=7wA3w5LoRXqWL7ocVnPdxA https://open.spotify.com/album/3ruy1nBte44Ziwta8Agu27?si=7wA... Howard is also a brilliant jazz pianist. His album Open Road with the bassist Janos Bruneel is fantastic. Another superb prepared-piano guy is Clem Leek: https://open.spotify.com/album/3cwtIJImhlcIcXewI73p0D?si=N6mnmYNhTECVRx0tYUseyQ https://open.spotify.com/album/3cwtIJImhlcIcXewI73p0D?si=N6m... And then there's Dustin O'Halloran, whose name sounds like he should be a gangly, wandering folk singer, but is actually a phenomenal pianist and composer. His three piano solo albums are great. He's been doing a lot of soundtrack composition recently that mixes electronics and piano; his score for the recent film Puzzle is on rotation in my Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/6TDQmJ2G8UoCyyKFsWKsq7?si=IxTTAap3QX-kfclP5UNqqA https://open.spotify.com/album/6TDQmJ2G8UoCyyKFsWKsq7?si=IxT... O'Halloran's electronic side project, Winged Victory for the Sullen, is also superb: https://open.spotify.com/album/6vygseD1InhHomosteUnPU?si=73xeRAotRmOQNEbs0U_LJw https://open.spotify.com/album/6vygseD1InhHomosteUnPU?si=73x... The Norwegian pianist Otto Totland: https://open.spotify.com/album/7uPWpTHYqHEQTpZIlgELQK?si=ddgGiXFgTla5KQ1iMd2-vw https://open.spotify.com/album/7uPWpTHYqHEQTpZIlgELQK?si=ddg... Also check out Hauschka and Federico Albanese.
- jdietrich 8y agoA sample library of the Una Corda is available from Native Instruments. It's a very useful instrument, providing a lighter and more ethereal alternative to a conventional piano. It has a surprisingly complex timbre, evoking hints of a harp, steel pan or kalimba in the upper register. https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/una-corda/ https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys...
- JoelTheSuperior 8y agoThis. I'll admit I don't use it much (it isn't really appropriate for a lot of what I do), but it is genuinely a wonderful instrument.
- notacoward 8y agoSome of the tracks sound a lot like a picked guitar, which I guess isn't that surprising. How much that comes through probably depends on exactly which sound banks, strings, etc. are used. Unfortunately, most of the samples are of obscure compositions. I think some tracks of traditional piano standards, especially side by side with a regular piano, would really show off the sound more.
- fipple 8y agoDang, $150 for a pack of samples from one instrument? As in, 88 WAV files? Is that the usual price for this kind of thing?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- hansjorg 8y agoI guess Nils has a new piano :)
- weinzierl 8y agoPianos used to have a pedal that causes the hammer strike only one string. The pedal is still there and still called Una Corda but usually doesn't do real single string activation anymore. This is also not the same as a Una Corda piano that has only one string per note because in a regular piano sympathetic string resonance is a significant contributor to the sound.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- matt-attack 8y agoYep, my piano does just that. The entire keyboard (and hammer assembly) slides over slightly when the press the pedal.
- saghm 8y agoFrom playing around with pianos, I've seen that there's a pedal that moves the keys over, and I never knew what it was for. Thanks for explaining!
- cvoss 8y agoBoth kinds of pedal are typical, but it depends on the type of piano. For uprights, the una corda pedal moves the hammers closer to the strings so they don't accelerate for as long on their way in. But on a grand, the una corda pedal indeed still shifts the entire mechanism to the right so that the hammers truly hit una corda each.
- sandworm101 8y ago>> string resonance is a significant contributor to the sound. String resonance and the case. Removing the case from a piano is like a make a drum out of a hoop and a skin. The case modulates the sound. It softens the rough edges and projects sound in particular directions. Removing it doesn't make the sound better. The case also ensures that all the piano innards are in a homogeneous environment. Without a case, individual strings will be in different temperature regions. Wooden parts will be in different moistures. Felt and leather bits will age inconstantly. A piano living without a case is like storing a strat violin on a shelf: artistically interesting but not done by anyone who actually appreciates the instrument.
- xaduha 8y agoFor a moment I thought that Native Instruments actually built it and got into that business.
- romwell 8y agoWouldn't be unprecedented after Arturia.
- patrickbolle 8y agoI love the sound of this. When I was all into Ableton this was the only piano library that I used, ever. It sounds wonderful.
- dharma1 8y agoNice. It's hard to invent new meaningful, playable acoustic instruments. Respect to anyone who does. Another one I really like is the Array Mbira, up to 7 octave chromatic Mbiras with stereo pickups. https://www.arraymbira.com/ https://www.arraymbira.com/
- 52-6F-62 8y agoThat thing probably belongs in the hands of Johnny Greenwood, if anyone.
- poof_he_is_gone 8y agoI have a 64 note piano and love it. It is has one or two strings per note instead of the standard 3. I bought mine at a garage sale for $240 bucks about 20 years ago, and it is my favorite instrument. I love the idea of this but not at that price point.
- timc3 8y agoWhat make is it?
- ngcc_hk 8y agoBeethoven stage piano is still experimental and in fact you may note the moonlight do not go higher note. But more importantly the sound meadower. Chopin also have a weaker source Piano. Not all are concert pianist. Should have an option
- WhompingWindows 8y agoPricing 64-key Una Corda® Piano……………………………………………………..€ 15,900 net* Including big wheels, tone modulator, and music stand 88-key Una Corda® Piano……………………………………………………..€ 21,900 net* Including big wheels, tone modulator, and music stand Why would any serious musician spend 22k Euros on this piano when they could get an actual grand piano from a reputable maker? If you're super wealthy and you like fun toys, sure, but this is going to be an inferior instrument in volume, tone, tone control, sustain, and pretty much all the features a serious pianist is adept at manipulating.
- RandallBrown 8y agoThey wouldn't. This is a piece of functional art like a Rolex.
- busterarm 8y agoI don't think that's necessarily fair or accurate. Most gear above a certain pricepoint isn't even really marketed directly to musicians anymore. It's recording studios, live music production companies and backline rental companies who are going to be buying these things and they're totally going to sell.
- TheRealPomax 8y agoIt absolutely is not. It's a musical instrument that real artists have used on real albums.
- KaiserPro 8y agoI'd go out on a limb and say, no, no its not. I have relatives that play the European baroque music circle. They have a fine collection of various stringed instruments. Most of them are older than the USA. to give a rough price just look at this page: http://www.contrabass.co.uk/cstopquality.htm http://www.contrabass.co.uk/cstopquality.htm A "decent" baby grand piano (used) is about £10k. A "concert" baby grand is about £18k (you know, loud, acid, overly bright) For the sort of music I want to play, the Una Corda, is perfect. If I was working at a recording studio again, I suspect there would be a large market for having this piano in. In most of the studios I've been in, the piano is stripped bare and has all sorts of padding in. (and no, its not fun to vacuum.)
- pao73 8y agoIf you wonder una corda means one string in Italian
- Sharlin 8y agoAt first I was confused and wondered whether my understanding of how pianos work is totally inadequate and whether normal pianos have fewer than one string per note (perhaps with some sort of a fret system to allow adjacent keys to share strings). Turns out they have more than one on average; typically two in the tenor range and three in treble, so as not to be overpowered by the massive bass strings.
- telesilla 8y agoThe soundtrack that was playing throughout the film was made with this piano. You can get this effect by "preparing" a regular piano, which is one of Nils Frahm's specialities but it's quite a special instrument in itself, an ethereal quality. Piano technology is really fascinating, if you go back to the first struck instruments from the 17th century through to the massive modern day iron-frame stage monsters that can compete with a full-size orchestra. Nils also made a wonderful contribution to the music community with his instrument plug-in: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/una-corda/the-original-instrument/ https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys...
- GuB-42 8y agoClavichords, which are small keyboard instruments predating the piano, can be fretted. As a result, they can have fewer than one string per note. To my knowledge, harpsichords and pianos are never fretted and need at least one string per note.
- baldfat 8y agoPianos typically have two strings per note. It makes the piano louder and helps the tone of the note to sound fuller. This happened when they started making a piano super strong frames.
- Nition 8y agoThat's incorrect. A typical piano has one string on the bass notes, then two strings per note as you get higher up the keyboard, then three per note higher up again. The exact point where the switch is made varies a little. If you meant "typically" as in the majority, the majority of the keys have three strings.
- TomWhitwell 8y agoThis vertical grand piano - you have to go up a short flight of steps to get to the keyboard - from the same company, is ACE https://www.klavins-pianos.com/products/model-450i/ https://www.klavins-pianos.com/products/model-450i/
- knodi123 8y agobut.... why not just design it so the keyboard is on ground level, and the strings go up instead of down? is this just a design flex?
- TheRealPomax 8y agoYou don't want to sit in front of strings that loud and sympathetic (meaning one string makes many other strings vibrate along both due to harmonics as well as plain physical vibration travelling into them). It would be super uncomfortaable and players would damage their hearing so fast. You want to be out of the path of the sound, not just for the "listener"s benefit, but absolutely also your own. It's why grand pianos reflect sound "to the side". If you used the upright approach of sending it over the pianist, you'd end up with a lot of damaged ears and broken players.
- xchaotic 8y agoI am all in favour of equality, but the inequality we have now and the one we've had in the past produces these great and bizzare artifacts that people still value after centuries if not wins. We still go to see the sphinx in Egypt - a true homage to slavery and I suspect archeologist in the future would prefer to uncover such a piano as opposed to 1000 more old cars or TVs
- lqet 8y agoSlightly related quote: "You know what the fella said – in Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
- TheRealPomax 8y agoFor those unfamiliar with the Michelberger Hotel: if you have the opportunity to stay there, do so. It's like nowhere you've been before, and the fact that this piano was shown off there first is a surprise to no one who ever had the pleasure of spending one or more nights in their hotel, especially if you're multiple people and explore each others' rooms. And I do mean explore.
- brett40324 8y agoDo you have a link / reference about this you can post?
- TheRealPomax 8y agohttps://michelbergerhotel.com/en/ https://michelbergerhotel.com/en/
- anjc 8y agoIt sounds like a more refined version of a poorly maintained upright that needs restringing and new hammers
- yongjik 8y agoFun fact: Beethoven once owned a piano that had four strings per key on the higher range[1]. I'm not sure if he used that piano to compose his sonata Op 110, but it has a section[2] that starts with una corda, with a very serene melody, and as it gradually picks up its energy Beethoven instructs the player to use more and more strings... an effect that's not quite possible with modern pianos as modern una corda is not actually one but two strings per key (in the middle-to-high region), and that's the only distinction we have. [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=q6oZkreoZtQC&pg=PA57&dq=beethoven%27s+pianos+four+strings&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKr-TR6obgAhWHxFQKHaK8D94Q6AEILDAB#v=onepage&q=beethoven's%20pianos%20four%20strings&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=q6oZkreoZtQC&pg=PA57&dq=be... [2] See, for example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI1viKPG3TI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI1viKPG3TI starting ~18:32 until the end.
- carlob 8y agoI remember seeing a piano from the early XX century that had a fourth string, however it was sympathetic (never struck) and there was no fine control of how many strings were being struck. EDIT: found it! https://www.pianostreet.com/blog/piano-news/bluthner-and-the-aliquot-fourth-string-system-4711/ https://www.pianostreet.com/blog/piano-news/bluthner-and-the...
- auiya 8y agoHere's a video of the real deal (not NI plugin) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtD5mZP8AU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtD5mZP8AU
- publicfig 8y agoThis is still a typically stringed piano, just with felt added to dampen the other strings, I believe. The webpage describes an Una Corda piano built with only one string
- misthop 8y agoOne string per note (as opposed to the usual 1/2/3 depending on where in on the keyboard you are talking about), not only one string. The video the parent linked to is the Una Corda - played by the designer/builder
- KaiserPro 8y agoWhat I find interesting is in this video the Piano still has that acid Steinway sound (I really dislike) where as the video on the OP link is soft and almost like a dulcimer with a boatload of felt. I suspect thats also down to another layer of felt and playing softly. either way, it sounds fantastic.
- QuercusMax 8y agoI love that the piano maker's name is Klavins. I know it means Maple Tree or something like that in Latvian(?), but it's also very close to "klavier", which means piano in various languages.
- sansnomme 8y agoCan this be tuned precisely? Since each note maps to one string, will there still be the irrational tuning problem? https://metro.co.uk/2015/09/18/its-impossible-to-tune-a-piano-5398180/ https://metro.co.uk/2015/09/18/its-impossible-to-tune-a-pian...
- mortdeus 8y agothere is a technical reason why pianos have more than one string... equal temperament tuning does not sound right on a piano and the other strings allow somebody to change the notes soft/hard dynamics without changing the notes pitch. this is important when trying to get some chords in equal temperament to harmonize.
- ladelfa 8y agoSome thoughts on this, from an enthusiast, collector, and amateur player of odd and arcane keyboard instruments. On the subject of one string per hammer: while this is novel for a modern acoustic piano, it is not especially so for other members of the family. Smaller harpsichords, for instance, are always strung like this, and even in larger ones having multiple "choirs" of strings, the number of strings being plucked simultaneously by a single key can always be configured, typically through levers or pedals. In the 1970s Yamaha brought out line of single-strung stage pianos (CP-70, CP-80, etc.) that were popular with rock players because they were relatively portable and significantly faster to tune. (Kawai also had an upright of similar design.) These were not loud enough to be played acoustically, but instead were fitted with electric-guitar-style pickups under each string much like the Una Corda has, producing a similar sound. In fact, as I listened to the soundtrack on the video, I was struck by the resemblance of the sound not only to the Yamaha CP-70, but to the Rhodes electric piano, which has rigid steel tines instead of strings, but also one to a key. I like the ability to swap in various felts to modify the timbre; many modern harpsichords have this facility also, with something called a "buff stop." Player pianos in the first half of the 20th century frequently featured a lever that would lower a comb of felt with little metal rivets between the hammers and strings, producing a "honky tonk" or "tack piano" sound; presumably one could fashion something similar for the Una Corda. The open, vertical design reminds me of the beautiful Clavicytheriums produced by the American harpsichord builder Steven Sørli (http://www.lautenwerk.com http://www.lautenwerk.com). Here's a video of one: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL89758D803857A19B https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL89758D803857A19B Yes, these are quiet instruments, but the late-Renaissance and Baroque music one would typically perform on them is much better served by this sparse clarity than can be produced on the modern grand piano. I suspect that the Una Corda would be similarly friendly to this repertoire. Another benefit of the single-stringing is that, presumably, a capable player might reasonably expect to tune the instrument themselves, permitting the setting of very specific configurations other than twelve exactly equal divisions of the octave tuned to A=440. For acoustic and historical reasons, a lot of pieces really bloom in a certain way when you can do this, but on the modern grand piano it's a time-consuming task usually best left to a professional tuner/technician. (Because of the relatively unstable nature of their instruments, harpsichord players, like harpists and guitarists, have to learn to do this themselves early on in their studies, and thereby gain exposure to various temperaments and reference pitches, e.g. Werckmeister III at A=415.) On the matter of price, 22,000 Euro (~$25K) is about the going rate for a new custom-built harpsichord, so that's not totally unreasonable. Other classical and orchestral instruments of professional quality frequently command similar sums, and new grand pianos easily get up into the six-figure range. I would love to see one of these in person. Anyone spotted one in the US yet?