5 ms·

https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/3814/whats-the-difference-between-starcraft-and-dota-from-an-ai-perspective https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/3814/w

https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/3814/whats-the-difference-between-starcraft-and-dota-from-an-ai-perspective https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/3814/whats-the-differ...

bredren 8y ago
It is somewhat disturbing that the AI learned to creep-block on its own.
- landryraccoon 8y ago
  It’s going to get even creepier for you then. I’d be very surprised if a decade from now any human player has a chance of beating a state of the art AI player in pvp games.
  - kevinmchugh 8y ago
    I'm interested to see how advanced AI can get at Spy Party
  - bredren 8y ago
    Reminds me of this woz quote an associate and I say to each other on occasion when creepy AI comes up: "The future is scary and very bad for people" which we shorten to "The future is scary and very bad." :) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/03/24/apple-co-founder-on-artificial-intelligence-the-future-is-scary-and-very-bad-for-people/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/03/24...
  - foolfoolz 8y ago
    that's not creepy at all. there's many sports today where a machine specially built for that task would dominate any human from ever winning. a baseball "player" that can hit a homerun on every swing. or throw a 150mph fastball. a basketball "player" that can make every single shot. you dont even need to defend that well when youre shooting 99% a "golfer" that can get a hole on one in every hole emulating human movement and agility will keep a few more sports safe, but not for long. im just sitting here waiting for the robot olympics
    - Tossrock 8y ago
      The first two, maybe, but there's no way we could build a golfing robot that gets a hole in one on every shot.
      - vvillena 8y ago
        In an indoor field it's totally possible. Standard golf is affected by weather, though.
      - foolfoolz 8y ago
        at the very least the machine will 1-putt from anywhere on the green
    - rictic 8y ago
      More interesting would be humanoid robots that could win at these sports. The state of the art today is a long ways away from being able to compete in any of the listed sports. Baseball is probably closest because with sufficiently good pitching and hitting you could win, which would avoid the much more dynamic problems of fielding, running bases, etc.
    - typon 8y ago
      You are really underestimating the difficulty in making humanoid robots that actually work well. Sure we can make a basketball shooting machine with a high accuracy, but one that participate in a game, dribble, pass etc? Near impossible with today's technology.
      - SiempreViernes 8y ago
        It just needs to be tall, move with some speed, and be able to receive passes from other players; essentially a easier to hit hoop that can annoy the opposing team by getting in the way. The requirement that it'd be humanoid is just an artificial restriction that reveals you are not really asking for the best basketball machine that can be made.
        8y ago
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    state of the art AI has been unbeatable in FPS since the first aimbot was created.
- avree 8y ago
  Where did you read that it learned "on its own"? It was specifically trained to do that (https://blog.openai.com/more-on-dota-2/ https://blog.openai.com/more-on-dota-2/) and the devs made edits to the model to improve it (https://twitter.com/Smerity/status/897959521661759488 https://twitter.com/Smerity/status/897959521661759488)
  - Permit 8y ago
    That was from 2017 1v1 bot. OpenAI Five apparently learned it on its own. From: https://blog.openai.com/openai-five/ https://blog.openai.com/openai-five/ > Creep blocking can be learned from scratch. For 1v1, we learned creep blocking using traditional RL with a “creep block” reward. One of our team members left a 2v2 model training when he went on vacation (proposing to his now wife!), intending to see how much longer training would boost performance. To his surprise, the model had learned to creep block without any special guidance or reward.

https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/3814/whats-the-difference-between-starcraft-and-dota-from-an-ai-perspective https://ai.stackexchange.com/questions/3814/whats-the-differ...

bredren 8y ago

It is somewhat disturbing that the AI learned to creep-block on its own.

landryraccoon 8y ago
It’s going to get even creepier for you then. I’d be very surprised if a decade from now any human player has a chance of beating a state of the art AI player in pvp games.
- kevinmchugh 8y ago
  I'm interested to see how advanced AI can get at Spy Party
- bredren 8y ago
  Reminds me of this woz quote an associate and I say to each other on occasion when creepy AI comes up: "The future is scary and very bad for people" which we shorten to "The future is scary and very bad." :) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/03/24/apple-co-founder-on-artificial-intelligence-the-future-is-scary-and-very-bad-for-people/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/03/24...
- foolfoolz 8y ago
  that's not creepy at all. there's many sports today where a machine specially built for that task would dominate any human from ever winning. a baseball "player" that can hit a homerun on every swing. or throw a 150mph fastball. a basketball "player" that can make every single shot. you dont even need to defend that well when youre shooting 99% a "golfer" that can get a hole on one in every hole emulating human movement and agility will keep a few more sports safe, but not for long. im just sitting here waiting for the robot olympics
  - Tossrock 8y ago
    The first two, maybe, but there's no way we could build a golfing robot that gets a hole in one on every shot.
    - vvillena 8y ago
      In an indoor field it's totally possible. Standard golf is affected by weather, though.
    - foolfoolz 8y ago
      at the very least the machine will 1-putt from anywhere on the green
  - rictic 8y ago
    More interesting would be humanoid robots that could win at these sports. The state of the art today is a long ways away from being able to compete in any of the listed sports. Baseball is probably closest because with sufficiently good pitching and hitting you could win, which would avoid the much more dynamic problems of fielding, running bases, etc.
  - typon 8y ago
    You are really underestimating the difficulty in making humanoid robots that actually work well. Sure we can make a basketball shooting machine with a high accuracy, but one that participate in a game, dribble, pass etc? Near impossible with today's technology.
    - SiempreViernes 8y ago
      It just needs to be tall, move with some speed, and be able to receive passes from other players; essentially a easier to hit hoop that can annoy the opposing team by getting in the way. The requirement that it'd be humanoid is just an artificial restriction that reveals you are not really asking for the best basketball machine that can be made.
      - 8y ago
- leetcrew 8y ago
  state of the art AI has been unbeatable in FPS since the first aimbot was created.
avree 8y ago
Where did you read that it learned "on its own"? It was specifically trained to do that (https://blog.openai.com/more-on-dota-2/ https://blog.openai.com/more-on-dota-2/) and the devs made edits to the model to improve it (https://twitter.com/Smerity/status/897959521661759488 https://twitter.com/Smerity/status/897959521661759488)
- Permit 8y ago
  That was from 2017 1v1 bot. OpenAI Five apparently learned it on its own. From: https://blog.openai.com/openai-five/ https://blog.openai.com/openai-five/ > Creep blocking can be learned from scratch. For 1v1, we learned creep blocking using traditional RL with a “creep block” reward. One of our team members left a 2v2 model training when he went on vacation (proposing to his now wife!), intending to see how much longer training would boost performance. To his surprise, the model had learned to creep block without any special guidance or reward.