5 ms·

As though StarCraft multiplayer wasn't difficult enough! In all seriousness, this is pretty neat. Does anyone know if it already knows everything on the map, o

As though StarCraft multiplayer wasn't difficult enough! In all seriousness, this is pretty neat. Does anyone know if it already knows everything on the map, or if it has to discover units like the rest of us?

lrem 8y ago
The previous attempts at this would plug in the AI to a regular player interface. Tournaments would also impose APM limits to prevent inhuman rate of actions.
- postalrat 8y ago
  Does APM alone somehow win games? If that's the case this AI stuff is trivial.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    The SC community seriously obsesses over APM, but I'm not entirely sure if it's correlation or causation. I personally think it's overblown and became popular because it's one of the few things you can easily measure and compare between players.
    - kochthesecond 8y ago
      it's largely overvalued, but you probably can't be a pro without at least ~150, slightly less than 3 actions per second, increasing as the game goes on.
    - s_m_t 8y ago
      Well, ignoring spam clicks, APM is a measure of the number of decisions that a player makes throughout the course of the game. You'd expect a player making more decisions to come out ahead in a game as fast paced and action oriented as Starcraft.
    - cjbprime 8y ago
      It's clearly correlation. A pro will still play at a high level with mouse only, or even keyboard only. Example keyboard only game: https://youtu.be/cY0d2kHzrxY https://youtu.be/cY0d2kHzrxY
  - knicholes 8y ago
    It makes a huge difference. In this video, 20 tanks kill 100 zerglings and lose only two tanks. With super-human micro, the results are... quite different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs
    - vvillena 8y ago
      Reaction time is the real difference in this video. A human can't react to the twitch of the siege tank cannon that happens just an instant before the shot lands, we treat it as something that happens instantly and thus, we can't react to it, not even with a single unit. If you apply a human reaction time to that AI, that behavior isn't possible anymore, even with perfect micro.
marviel 8y ago
I hope the paper release on Jan 24 will include such details.
- gwern 8y ago
  There may not be any papers. They only announced a YouTube livestream of a 'demonstration'.
mooneater 8y ago
It has partial observability constraints.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> As though StarCraft multiplayer wasn't difficult enough! But it just won't be the same without someone telling me that I'm awful and my mother is of questionable morals. ... machine learning will probably pick that up too.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  Personally I've found that Starcraft is one of the less salty/bm games out there. At least in diamond 1v1, people doing "gl hf" at the beginning and "gg" when they lose is common. And you don't have much time to whine in practice because there's no downtime until either you or them are basically dead.
gwern 8y ago
It has full fog of war and has to use the camera like any human does. As of November at Blizzcon, apparently it wasn't doing enough exploring: http://starcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-2018-starcraft-ii-whats-next-panel-transcript/5 http://starcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-2018... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUA8n_fczU&t=1360 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUA8n_fczU&t=1360 More detailed discussions at https://www.reddit.com/r/reinforcementlearning/comments/aiocrt/deepmind_schedules_starcraft_2_demonstration_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/reinforcementlearning/comments/aioc... & https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/aip7vu/d_deepminds_starcraft_ii_stream_this_thursday_at/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/aip7vu/d_d...

lrem 8y ago

The previous attempts at this would plug in the AI to a regular player interface. Tournaments would also impose APM limits to prevent inhuman rate of actions.

postalrat 8y ago
Does APM alone somehow win games? If that's the case this AI stuff is trivial.
- jandrese 8y ago
  The SC community seriously obsesses over APM, but I'm not entirely sure if it's correlation or causation. I personally think it's overblown and became popular because it's one of the few things you can easily measure and compare between players.
  - kochthesecond 8y ago
    it's largely overvalued, but you probably can't be a pro without at least ~150, slightly less than 3 actions per second, increasing as the game goes on.
  - s_m_t 8y ago
    Well, ignoring spam clicks, APM is a measure of the number of decisions that a player makes throughout the course of the game. You'd expect a player making more decisions to come out ahead in a game as fast paced and action oriented as Starcraft.
  - cjbprime 8y ago
    It's clearly correlation. A pro will still play at a high level with mouse only, or even keyboard only. Example keyboard only game: https://youtu.be/cY0d2kHzrxY https://youtu.be/cY0d2kHzrxY
- knicholes 8y ago
  It makes a huge difference. In this video, 20 tanks kill 100 zerglings and lose only two tanks. With super-human micro, the results are... quite different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs
  - vvillena 8y ago
    Reaction time is the real difference in this video. A human can't react to the twitch of the siege tank cannon that happens just an instant before the shot lands, we treat it as something that happens instantly and thus, we can't react to it, not even with a single unit. If you apply a human reaction time to that AI, that behavior isn't possible anymore, even with perfect micro.

marviel 8y ago

I hope the paper release on Jan 24 will include such details.

gwern 8y ago
There may not be any papers. They only announced a YouTube livestream of a 'demonstration'.

mooneater 8y ago

It has partial observability constraints.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

> As though StarCraft multiplayer wasn't difficult enough! But it just won't be the same without someone telling me that I'm awful and my mother is of questionable morals. ... machine learning will probably pick that up too.

TulliusCicero 8y ago
Personally I've found that Starcraft is one of the less salty/bm games out there. At least in diamond 1v1, people doing "gl hf" at the beginning and "gg" when they lose is common. And you don't have much time to whine in practice because there's no downtime until either you or them are basically dead.

gwern 8y ago

It has full fog of war and has to use the camera like any human does. As of November at Blizzcon, apparently it wasn't doing enough exploring: http://starcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-2018-starcraft-ii-whats-next-panel-transcript/5 http://starcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-2018... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUA8n_fczU&t=1360 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUA8n_fczU&t=1360 More detailed discussions at https://www.reddit.com/r/reinforcementlearning/comments/aiocrt/deepmind_schedules_starcraft_2_demonstration_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/reinforcementlearning/comments/aioc... & https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/aip7vu/d_deepminds_starcraft_ii_stream_this_thursday_at/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/aip7vu/d_d...