4 ms·

What makes it flawed? It is a legit strategy that occasionally works at the pro level.

sudo_rm 8y ago
Not a worker rush. Worker rushes only really work against lower ranked players that panic and do not know how to respond. The reason is that while the attacking player sends over their workers to attack, the defending player is still constantly making workers. By the time that attackers get there the defending player should have more workers. He simply has to command all of them to fight the opponent's workers.
- MichaelDickens 8y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP_ZcpZIBDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP_ZcpZIBDQ This is a pro-level game where one of the players worker rushes, and the rush is moderately successful.
  - sudo_rm 8y ago
    That's a 12 pool though. Little different. The article was talking about an immediate worker rush, not building some army and then going over.
    - bseidensticker 8y ago
      There was no pool, no lings. Just double gas cancel to get 2 extra drones without needing an overlord.
  - kochthesecond 8y ago
    12 pool is a valid opening. A worker rush is not.
- gpm 8y ago
  It's plausible that a self playing AI would still learn to worker rush in some race combos though, at least for awhile. If the opponent doesn't react, you win because you kill all their workers. If the opponent overreacts, you win because you are mining more than them (IIRC this is a problem with the insane ai). If the opponent reacts poorly in other ways, you might be able to win by out microing them. E.g. SCVs (terran workers) consistently beat drones/probe (the other races workers) 1-1 without micro. Repairing can be an advantage. The offensive AI being better at stacking damage on a few units. Etc. The defensive AI should learn to fix these problems and stop losing to worker rushes, but it could take awhile. In other words the defensive AI starts out as a lower ranked player. PS. I'm not sure how serious a tournament this was, but here's an example of a real worker rush (not an early pool with workers attached): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtqgaJzJP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtqgaJzJP4
- jandrese 8y ago
  Isn't the idea that because your opponent spent resources on things like their first barracks and gas collector that your workers should outnumber them for the attack? Of course you lose all of that time it takes for your workers to drive across the map, so it's a pretty dicey strategy. A 50% win rate against the AI sounds about right.
  - she11c0de 8y ago
    You shouldn't cut worker production at the beginning of the game - it's critical to keep pumping them uninterruptedly. You only build when you have enough resources to ensure that.
kochthesecond 8y ago
Worker rushes do not work at pro level. Cannon rushes and proxy buildings sometimes work if caught off guard. The openings in sc2 is more akin to the mind games of poker than chess. Information is hidden so there is nothing to keep you honest.
- cjbprime 8y ago
  ZvZ is an exception, when a worker rueh is paired with an early pool, making it a worker and spine rush.

Not a worker rush. Worker rushes only really work against lower ranked players that panic and do not know how to respond. The reason is that while the attacking player sends over their workers to attack, the defending player is still constantly making workers. By the time that attackers get there the defending player should have more workers. He simply has to command all of them to fight the opponent's workers.

MichaelDickens 8y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP_ZcpZIBDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP_ZcpZIBDQ This is a pro-level game where one of the players worker rushes, and the rush is moderately successful.
- sudo_rm 8y ago
  That's a 12 pool though. Little different. The article was talking about an immediate worker rush, not building some army and then going over.
  - bseidensticker 8y ago
    There was no pool, no lings. Just double gas cancel to get 2 extra drones without needing an overlord.
- kochthesecond 8y ago
  12 pool is a valid opening. A worker rush is not.
gpm 8y ago
It's plausible that a self playing AI would still learn to worker rush in some race combos though, at least for awhile. If the opponent doesn't react, you win because you kill all their workers. If the opponent overreacts, you win because you are mining more than them (IIRC this is a problem with the insane ai). If the opponent reacts poorly in other ways, you might be able to win by out microing them. E.g. SCVs (terran workers) consistently beat drones/probe (the other races workers) 1-1 without micro. Repairing can be an advantage. The offensive AI being better at stacking damage on a few units. Etc. The defensive AI should learn to fix these problems and stop losing to worker rushes, but it could take awhile. In other words the defensive AI starts out as a lower ranked player. PS. I'm not sure how serious a tournament this was, but here's an example of a real worker rush (not an early pool with workers attached): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtqgaJzJP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtqgaJzJP4
jandrese 8y ago
Isn't the idea that because your opponent spent resources on things like their first barracks and gas collector that your workers should outnumber them for the attack? Of course you lose all of that time it takes for your workers to drive across the map, so it's a pretty dicey strategy. A 50% win rate against the AI sounds about right.
- she11c0de 8y ago
  You shouldn't cut worker production at the beginning of the game - it's critical to keep pumping them uninterruptedly. You only build when you have enough resources to ensure that.

kochthesecond 8y ago

Worker rushes do not work at pro level. Cannon rushes and proxy buildings sometimes work if caught off guard. The openings in sc2 is more akin to the mind games of poker than chess. Information is hidden so there is nothing to keep you honest.

cjbprime 8y ago
ZvZ is an exception, when a worker rueh is paired with an early pool, making it a worker and spine rush.