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It’s not just hard, it’s also pointless unless we all do it together. If these people had refrained from making the trip, it would have no real impact on climat

It’s not just hard, it’s also pointless unless we all do it together. If these people had refrained from making the trip, it would have no real impact on climate change. It’s a collective action problem.

ams6110 8y ago
Someone has to set the example. Preferably someone influential.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Setting an example is neither necessary nor sufficient to solve the problem.
nimish 8y ago
That's defeatist. Small changes are not the only things that matter but saying "everything or nothing" is not helpful. The collective change that's needed to effect change begins with individual steps, like not taking a private plane when commercial will do.
- makerofspoons 8y ago
  Or even better- not flying at all and attending the conference virtually. Climate conferences and talks so frequently are held in resort towns- it should not be a getaway. Reserve some conference rooms and have everyone dial in! We have the technology.
  - ohhh 8y ago
    Phone calls. Phone calls? Fix the world with phone calls? It’s not enough to call people on the phone.
  - hfourm 8y ago
    boom dis rite here
- Retric 8y ago
  I can’t think of a single case in human history where indiduals acting alone made a real difference in widespread issues like climate change. So suggesting it starts with individual steps seems wildly inaccurate.
  - rgbrenner 8y ago
    Someone has to go first. If not you, then who? Everything starts with someone going first. And your actions do have an effect: by providing an example to others, making it more likely they too will participate; and economic, by reducing the income generated from the activity.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      Who? The government. Sign a treaty, pass a law, impose loads and loads of CO2 taxes. Impose sanctions on countries that won't fall in line.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - Retric 8y ago
      1/1,000,000,000 has no meaningful impact on any of those. Silent Spring was written by a Rachel Carson and had real impact. However, her personal lifestyle was irrelevant. PS: As to someone going first, that is not an issue when say a state adds a sales tax. In such cases the first person to pay the tax is a sign that it's already in place.
      - rgbrenner 8y ago
        So I take it you don't believe in voting? Voting is nearly as worthless. No one said your singular vote (with your wallet) would change everything. But just like voting you help push things in the right direction. And you can, with additional effort, influence more people to vote the same way as you.
- throw564d 8y ago
  Sadly this isn't true. The changes required to make any significant difference would likely involve the end of capitalism as we know it, and thus they will never happen until a catastrophe occurs. You're living in a dreamworld if you think even something like the Paris accord is anywhere close. And climate change is just one small way in which we are ruining the world. Imagine what things will be like with 10 billion! Yet population control is taboo because fee fees. It's liberalism gone suicidal.
- mikeash 8y ago
  I’m not saying “everything or nothing.” I’m saying that we need to work together to make large changes. Getting governments to phase out coal faster is useful even though it’s far from the “everything” of getting rid of all fossil fuel use. Getting a few rich people to fly less is, on the other hand, not useful.

ams6110 8y ago

Someone has to set the example. Preferably someone influential.

mikeash 8y ago
Setting an example is neither necessary nor sufficient to solve the problem.

nimish 8y ago

That's defeatist. Small changes are not the only things that matter but saying "everything or nothing" is not helpful. The collective change that's needed to effect change begins with individual steps, like not taking a private plane when commercial will do.

makerofspoons 8y ago
Or even better- not flying at all and attending the conference virtually. Climate conferences and talks so frequently are held in resort towns- it should not be a getaway. Reserve some conference rooms and have everyone dial in! We have the technology.
- ohhh 8y ago
  Phone calls. Phone calls? Fix the world with phone calls? It’s not enough to call people on the phone.
- hfourm 8y ago
  boom dis rite here
Retric 8y ago
I can’t think of a single case in human history where indiduals acting alone made a real difference in widespread issues like climate change. So suggesting it starts with individual steps seems wildly inaccurate.
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  Someone has to go first. If not you, then who? Everything starts with someone going first. And your actions do have an effect: by providing an example to others, making it more likely they too will participate; and economic, by reducing the income generated from the activity.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    Who? The government. Sign a treaty, pass a law, impose loads and loads of CO2 taxes. Impose sanctions on countries that won't fall in line.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - Retric 8y ago
    1/1,000,000,000 has no meaningful impact on any of those. Silent Spring was written by a Rachel Carson and had real impact. However, her personal lifestyle was irrelevant. PS: As to someone going first, that is not an issue when say a state adds a sales tax. In such cases the first person to pay the tax is a sign that it's already in place.
    - rgbrenner 8y ago
      So I take it you don't believe in voting? Voting is nearly as worthless. No one said your singular vote (with your wallet) would change everything. But just like voting you help push things in the right direction. And you can, with additional effort, influence more people to vote the same way as you.
throw564d 8y ago
Sadly this isn't true. The changes required to make any significant difference would likely involve the end of capitalism as we know it, and thus they will never happen until a catastrophe occurs. You're living in a dreamworld if you think even something like the Paris accord is anywhere close. And climate change is just one small way in which we are ruining the world. Imagine what things will be like with 10 billion! Yet population control is taboo because fee fees. It's liberalism gone suicidal.
mikeash 8y ago
I’m not saying “everything or nothing.” I’m saying that we need to work together to make large changes. Getting governments to phase out coal faster is useful even though it’s far from the “everything” of getting rid of all fossil fuel use. Getting a few rich people to fly less is, on the other hand, not useful.