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It's the natural cycle of the internet. 1. Be a nobody company 2. Utilize generous user content to build up an important knowledge-base/economy 3. People beg
by alexandercrohde 8y ago
It's the natural cycle of the internet.
1. Be a nobody company
2. Utilize generous user content to build up an important knowledge-base/economy
3. People begin to trust the information in the system and come to rely on it
4. Sell-out entirely and make a lot of money letting people buy influence
5. People abandon the site realizing it has no signal anymore
(Digg, Reddit, Amazon, Glassdoor, experts-exchange, facebook, google search ~ish)
Notable exceptions: Craigslist, HN, stackoverflow, wikipedia, youtube
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- rchaud 8y agoNicely summarized. I see this pattern playing out so frequently that I'm at the point where I'm starting to think no one bothers creating content or communities without an eventual commercial angle that ruins the intent of the first iteration. In terms of your notable exception, I'd say Indiehackers (now owned by Stripe) is still quite good. But perhaps that's because Stripe appears to be pretty hands-off at this point, and of course that could change.
- WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago> without an eventual commercial angle If you're not planning on selling your personal projects, then they're hobby projects. Once a hobby project no longer becomes a hobby project, it becomes a commercial endeavour.
- pjc50 8y agoI feel that youtube is on the edge here; still lots of good information, but under heavy pressure.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoAnd the noise is quickly overwhelming the signal with the recommendations. It's hard to see at a glance what's new with the channels I'm subscribed to and actually want to see.
- kemitche 8y agoYou're missing step 3.5, where as a company gains trust and notoriety, more and more 3rd parties will attempt to game the system to their favor. That's where most trust can end up lost. The moment it becomes worthwhile to "buy upvotes" there will be trouble.
- blaike 8y agoDisagree with Youtube, that place is crooked.
- snicker7 8y agoHN as an exception? Astroturfing seems pretty common here.
- abraae 8y agoYou reckon? HN gives off almost a courteous Victorian gentlemen's club vibe it seems to me. Blatant astroturfers are given the silent treatment or shown the door.
- mrfredward 8y agoWhatever astroturfing happens comes from uninvited guests, HN itself isn't trying to sell anything, aside from providing a community that is useful for YC startups, and in general I think the mods and the community do a good job keeping away the spammy stuff.
- RomanPushkin 8y agoIt's not exception, I've been trying to ask some questions about Coinbase (YC company) in "Who Is Hiring" post, they all got removed. I reworded these comments multiple times, after ~10 attempts I gave up.
- bosaisi 8y agoYou forgot Yelp. :-)
- Pica_soO 8y agoCouldnt a opensource overlay page transition from one provider to the next, cutting the sell out phase short?
- sbs7 8y agoHmm. How do you buy influence on Reddit or Amazon?
- metalliqaz 8y agoOn Reddit, sub mods can be bought, and many are.
- sbs7 8y agoAs I said above - that's not actually item 4
- metalliqaz 8y agoWell, I suppose you could apply the same to Admins, that would count. I don't know of this happening, but then again I don't think we would have any way to discover it.
- RandallBrown 8y agoNot sure about Amazon, but this website for Reddit and Quora looks pretty easy. https://upvotes.io https://upvotes.io
- sbs7 8y agoRight, but this doesn't look like Reddit or Quora selling-out, these are just users exploiting the platforms
- mratzloff 8y agoDo you trust the reviews on Amazon? Especially from cheap Chinese suppliers? Those reviews come from somewhere.
- sbs7 8y agoAgain - yes, the reviews can be manipulated and they definitely ARE. But that is not in any way encouraged by Amazon as it doesn't get anything from that. "Sell-out entirely and make a lot of money letting people buy influence" - doesn't apply here
- mushufasa 8y agoWhat do you think is the difference in the companies that lose trust and that keep it? Would you agree with this idea: the companies that keep trust figure out a business incentive that aligns with keeping it? for example - HackerNews wants the best content to attract smart people to apply to YCombinator, which is where they make money - Wikipedia is a nonprofit, relying on happy users and foundations to donate - Craigslist is effectively a Public Benefit Corporation; They have a noncorporate noncommercial ethos as a closely held entity, and choose not to profit maximize What do you think Glassdoor should do to align their business with having accurate and trusted reviews?
- yellowapple 8y agoRe: the exceptions, I think they're all on that cycle, just sitting at step 3 (or borderline 4 in the case of YouTube).
- clarky07 8y agoI mostly agree with your analysis, but I think your examples don't actually fit. Please show me all the people abandoning google and amazon.