6 ms·

What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? e.g. a 1.5mm one?

by slimsag 8y ago

cptskippy 8y ago
Where are those sweet sweet licensing fees they enjoyed from the proprietary connectors?
- chris_wot 8y ago
  Kind of misses the point. I'd rather like to charge and use my earphones at the same time. It's not an unobvious use case!
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    Just wait, the next iPhone will be symmetrical with a notch and a lightning connector on each side.
  - dubya 8y ago
    There are a few adapters that do audio out and lightning in for charging. Apple makes (made?) a dock that was similar. They all have pretty bad reviews unfortunately. USB-C and Android seem to have the same lack of solutions. I was looking for one because one of our cars has no bluetooth, and the other has bluetooth that won't talk to any recent iPhone, and my iphone 5S is getting flaky. Wish I hadn't missed the SE over the weekend.
  - dangus 8y ago
    And the solution already exists within the product: wireless charging.
komali2 8y ago
That would almost certainly require a dongle in all use cases anyway...
tivert 8y ago
> What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? e.g. a 1.5mm one? Before the iPhone, traditional cell phones already had smaller headphone jacks: a 2.5mm one was pretty standard. One of the innovative things the iPhone did was replace the smaller port with a standard 3.5mm jack, which allowed people to use regular (potentially high-quality) 3.5mm headphones with it, rather than a crappy 2.5mm headset. The decision eliminated pointless proprietary-ness to integrate with a more vibrant ecosystem. Job's decision on the iMac to embrace USB and drop the Mac's proprietary ports could be seen in a similar light. I wish those kinds of decisions were the ones present-day Apple decided to cargo-cult.
- da_chicken 8y ago
  Yeah, but the EU has been trying to drag the same Apple kicking and screaming into using a common connector for phone chargers since at least 2011. The iPhone XS and XR still use the Lightning connector.
  - detaro 8y ago
    AFAIK the wording of the EU targets in the end was mostly about the charger, and shipping a USB charger and a USB-to-iDevice cable was tolerated as a solution.
  - badwolf 8y ago
    With the latest iPad Pro using USB-C (as well as macbooks) makes me think this will be happening soon (fingers crossed)
    - penagwin 8y ago
      I work in phone repair, and I have to say the lightning connector is superior to usb c in durability. 9/10 times a phone comes in "because it's not charging" there's dirt in the port, some tweezers and they're on their way. Whenever a USB port is involved, it's usually smashed and requires soldering to fix. Given that most modern phones have AMOLED screens, and those cost 200$+ just for our store to buy the part, and that many phones require you to remove the screen to get to the charging port.... Well you see where this is going.
shadowoflight 8y ago
1.5mm is way too thin for a consumer-aimed cord standard. I can imagine the headlines for "SnapGate" already...
ascagnel_ 8y ago
I'd love to see a headphone jack standard (maybe based on on USB-C?) that's digital or analog and doesn't short whenever you plug/unplug stuff.
- least 8y ago
  At some point through the chain, you have to have a change from a digital source (the music file on your computer) to an analog signal (that is pushing audio out of your headphones). If you are changing the headphone jack standard on the headphone end (changing it to a usb-c jack, for example) would simply be pushing the DAC into the headphone. Not only would this needlessly increase costs, it'd also remove the flexibility. I personally think that more headphones should have the threaded 3.5mm jack on which you can adapt either the 1/4" jack or say, a usb-c or lightning adapter. This would effectively make it a permanent addition to your headphones without having to keep track of a separate dongle.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  The lightning port would be ideal for that, except it’s proprietary.
jasode 8y ago
>What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? The explanation that made sense to me mentioned 2 design constraints: 1) the jack surface-mounted to the PCB took up space that conflicted with an edge-to-edge LCD/OLED display. If you've ever disassembled an iPhone, you'll see that removing the home button and extending the backlight assembly to the bottom edge means the headphone jack has to go away. 2) waterproof phone. The traditional jack was always an entry point for water damage. Apparently, Apple studied millions of phone users and determined that more people wanted waterproof phones with bigger edge-to-edge screens than the headphone jack.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > waterproof phone. Samsung has no problem making waterproof phones with headphone jacks. I'm not sure why, if you can put a USB/Thunderbolt/whatever jack on a phone and still be waterproof a headphone jack is some an intractable problem.
  - jasode 8y ago
    >waterproof a headphone jack is some an intractable problem. The explanation (possibly inaccurate) I read was that the waterproof jacks were more expensive. I noticed the new Samsung A8s has copied Apple's decision to remove headphone jack. Sony also removed the headphone jack. There seems to be an unavoidable engineering+cost motivation that causes multiple companies to remove that jack. Is it the edge-to-hedge screen? extra space for the haptic feedback? Better battery life because it doesn't feed the analog circuitry for that 3.5mm jack? I don't know.
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      Apple certainly isn't hurting for profits, in general or on a per-unit basis. Fobbing it off as "Your iPhone would cost $1.08 more, so we're looking out for you!" is just Apple spinning it the way they want.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > I noticed the new Samsung A8s has copied Apple's decision to remove headphone jack. Sure, and there are perennial rumors that real soon now that will be reflected on flagships (first the S10, but then that faded, now the rumor is either the Note 10 or S11.) > There seems to be an unavoidable engineering+cost motivation that multiple companies (including Sony) to remove that jack. Well, yeah, of course, if nothing else, it takes space that could be used for something else. The Samsung Note 10 rumor centers around trading it for a bigger battery, for instance. Obviously, it's not a trade-off free choice, and what it's traded for may not be the same between different manufacturers that decide to axe it. (The same with SD card slots, which lots of manufacturers have done—even Samsung several flagship generations back, though they reversed.)

What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? e.g. a 1.5mm one?

cptskippy 8y ago

Where are those sweet sweet licensing fees they enjoyed from the proprietary connectors?

chris_wot 8y ago
Kind of misses the point. I'd rather like to charge and use my earphones at the same time. It's not an unobvious use case!
- cptskippy 8y ago
  Just wait, the next iPhone will be symmetrical with a notch and a lightning connector on each side.
- dubya 8y ago
  There are a few adapters that do audio out and lightning in for charging. Apple makes (made?) a dock that was similar. They all have pretty bad reviews unfortunately. USB-C and Android seem to have the same lack of solutions. I was looking for one because one of our cars has no bluetooth, and the other has bluetooth that won't talk to any recent iPhone, and my iphone 5S is getting flaky. Wish I hadn't missed the SE over the weekend.
- dangus 8y ago
  And the solution already exists within the product: wireless charging.

komali2 8y ago

That would almost certainly require a dongle in all use cases anyway...

tivert 8y ago

> What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? e.g. a 1.5mm one? Before the iPhone, traditional cell phones already had smaller headphone jacks: a 2.5mm one was pretty standard. One of the innovative things the iPhone did was replace the smaller port with a standard 3.5mm jack, which allowed people to use regular (potentially high-quality) 3.5mm headphones with it, rather than a crappy 2.5mm headset. The decision eliminated pointless proprietary-ness to integrate with a more vibrant ecosystem. Job's decision on the iMac to embrace USB and drop the Mac's proprietary ports could be seen in a similar light. I wish those kinds of decisions were the ones present-day Apple decided to cargo-cult.

da_chicken 8y ago
Yeah, but the EU has been trying to drag the same Apple kicking and screaming into using a common connector for phone chargers since at least 2011. The iPhone XS and XR still use the Lightning connector.
- detaro 8y ago
  AFAIK the wording of the EU targets in the end was mostly about the charger, and shipping a USB charger and a USB-to-iDevice cable was tolerated as a solution.
- badwolf 8y ago
  With the latest iPad Pro using USB-C (as well as macbooks) makes me think this will be happening soon (fingers crossed)
  - penagwin 8y ago
    I work in phone repair, and I have to say the lightning connector is superior to usb c in durability. 9/10 times a phone comes in "because it's not charging" there's dirt in the port, some tweezers and they're on their way. Whenever a USB port is involved, it's usually smashed and requires soldering to fix. Given that most modern phones have AMOLED screens, and those cost 200$+ just for our store to buy the part, and that many phones require you to remove the screen to get to the charging port.... Well you see where this is going.

shadowoflight 8y ago

1.5mm is way too thin for a consumer-aimed cord standard. I can imagine the headlines for "SnapGate" already...

ascagnel_ 8y ago

I'd love to see a headphone jack standard (maybe based on on USB-C?) that's digital or analog and doesn't short whenever you plug/unplug stuff.

least 8y ago
At some point through the chain, you have to have a change from a digital source (the music file on your computer) to an analog signal (that is pushing audio out of your headphones). If you are changing the headphone jack standard on the headphone end (changing it to a usb-c jack, for example) would simply be pushing the DAC into the headphone. Not only would this needlessly increase costs, it'd also remove the flexibility. I personally think that more headphones should have the threaded 3.5mm jack on which you can adapt either the 1/4" jack or say, a usb-c or lightning adapter. This would effectively make it a permanent addition to your headphones without having to keep track of a separate dongle.
bradknowles 8y ago
The lightning port would be ideal for that, except it’s proprietary.

jasode 8y ago

>What I don't get is why not just replace the headphone jack with a smaller one? The explanation that made sense to me mentioned 2 design constraints: 1) the jack surface-mounted to the PCB took up space that conflicted with an edge-to-edge LCD/OLED display. If you've ever disassembled an iPhone, you'll see that removing the home button and extending the backlight assembly to the bottom edge means the headphone jack has to go away. 2) waterproof phone. The traditional jack was always an entry point for water damage. Apparently, Apple studied millions of phone users and determined that more people wanted waterproof phones with bigger edge-to-edge screens than the headphone jack.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> waterproof phone. Samsung has no problem making waterproof phones with headphone jacks. I'm not sure why, if you can put a USB/Thunderbolt/whatever jack on a phone and still be waterproof a headphone jack is some an intractable problem.
- jasode 8y ago
  >waterproof a headphone jack is some an intractable problem. The explanation (possibly inaccurate) I read was that the waterproof jacks were more expensive. I noticed the new Samsung A8s has copied Apple's decision to remove headphone jack. Sony also removed the headphone jack. There seems to be an unavoidable engineering+cost motivation that causes multiple companies to remove that jack. Is it the edge-to-hedge screen? extra space for the haptic feedback? Better battery life because it doesn't feed the analog circuitry for that 3.5mm jack? I don't know.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    Apple certainly isn't hurting for profits, in general or on a per-unit basis. Fobbing it off as "Your iPhone would cost $1.08 more, so we're looking out for you!" is just Apple spinning it the way they want.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I noticed the new Samsung A8s has copied Apple's decision to remove headphone jack. Sure, and there are perennial rumors that real soon now that will be reflected on flagships (first the S10, but then that faded, now the rumor is either the Note 10 or S11.) > There seems to be an unavoidable engineering+cost motivation that multiple companies (including Sony) to remove that jack. Well, yeah, of course, if nothing else, it takes space that could be used for something else. The Samsung Note 10 rumor centers around trading it for a bigger battery, for instance. Obviously, it's not a trade-off free choice, and what it's traded for may not be the same between different manufacturers that decide to axe it. (The same with SD card slots, which lots of manufacturers have done—even Samsung several flagship generations back, though they reversed.)