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> I'd love to peek at the alternate universe wherein Apple doesn't migrate to the FreeBSD-based OSX. (…) > I feel like that was the moment that the Mac pulled i

> I'd love to peek at the alternate universe wherein Apple doesn't migrate to the FreeBSD-based OSX. (…) > I feel like that was the moment that the Mac pulled in a lot of very technical and very influential people, with good reason You can look right now at what's happening to these very technical people. The ones I know are giving up on Apple and moving to Microsoft instead: because the WSL subsystem works, and the keyboard has most of the keys they want. We are living in interesting times!

chrisfinazzo 8y ago
WSL certainly helps as the same or very similar toolchain works everywhere, but what does the keyboard have to do with anything? Any keyboard issues w/ Apple are hardware reliability concerns, but that's really a separate issue, I think.
- aasasd 8y ago
  > what does the keyboard have to do with anything? https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/59pipx/apple_touch_bar_for_developers_will_look_like_this/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/59pipx/app...
  - chrisfinazzo 8y ago
    Has anyone ever tried to measure share among the various text editors on the Mac? The vi/emacs crowd makes a bunch of noise because it messes with their workflows, but the rest of us just soldier on with BBEdit/VSCode/Sublime/etc.
    - aasasd 8y ago
      Funny thing is, with proper use of touch typing you wouldn't need the top row: Esc is either Ctrl-[, or some map it to Caps Lock. And hardcore Vim users are definitely supposed to be deep in touch typing. So this ‘noise’ is actually just people making fun of Vim's idiosyncrasies in light of the touch bar thing. Emacs, afaik, doesn't need the top row at all.
      - chrisfinazzo 8y ago
        Touch typing would be OK, if Apple's keyboards (going back into the 90's) didn't suck, because flat keys are terrible. Almost all keyboards have gone this way save for the mechanical nerds, so I might take another look at that soon. Emacs is powerful, but Stallman's love of Ctrl prefixed commands and hatred for mice make it a challenge and Vi's key combinations are obtuse as hell (compounded by Apple's hardware). I'm more than happy with a real Mac application like BBEdit, but it's interesting to see how the other half lives.
- walterbell 8y ago
  Escape key
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ubermonkey 8y ago
Well, some folks are. I find Windows abhorrent at every level; there's just something missing about the way it's put together, and its evolution has been slapdash in the extreme. Apple avoided this fate by effectively starting over with OS X, but Win 10 is still beholden to design choices made decades ago, and it shows. The technical Mac folks I know aren't switching. They're just yelling a lot, and if they're on pre-butterfly keyboard Macs, they're putting off upgrades. Of course, the VERY nerdy/technical folks can and do sometimes switch to full time Linux, but if you're used to the level of out-of-the-box just-works functionality you get out of OS X that's a hard sell.

chrisfinazzo 8y ago

WSL certainly helps as the same or very similar toolchain works everywhere, but what does the keyboard have to do with anything? Any keyboard issues w/ Apple are hardware reliability concerns, but that's really a separate issue, I think.

aasasd 8y ago
> what does the keyboard have to do with anything? https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/59pipx/apple_touch_bar_for_developers_will_look_like_this/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/59pipx/app...
- chrisfinazzo 8y ago
  Has anyone ever tried to measure share among the various text editors on the Mac? The vi/emacs crowd makes a bunch of noise because it messes with their workflows, but the rest of us just soldier on with BBEdit/VSCode/Sublime/etc.
  - aasasd 8y ago
    Funny thing is, with proper use of touch typing you wouldn't need the top row: Esc is either Ctrl-[, or some map it to Caps Lock. And hardcore Vim users are definitely supposed to be deep in touch typing. So this ‘noise’ is actually just people making fun of Vim's idiosyncrasies in light of the touch bar thing. Emacs, afaik, doesn't need the top row at all.
    - chrisfinazzo 8y ago
      Touch typing would be OK, if Apple's keyboards (going back into the 90's) didn't suck, because flat keys are terrible. Almost all keyboards have gone this way save for the mechanical nerds, so I might take another look at that soon. Emacs is powerful, but Stallman's love of Ctrl prefixed commands and hatred for mice make it a challenge and Vi's key combinations are obtuse as hell (compounded by Apple's hardware). I'm more than happy with a real Mac application like BBEdit, but it's interesting to see how the other half lives.
walterbell 8y ago
Escape key
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

ubermonkey 8y ago

Well, some folks are. I find Windows abhorrent at every level; there's just something missing about the way it's put together, and its evolution has been slapdash in the extreme. Apple avoided this fate by effectively starting over with OS X, but Win 10 is still beholden to design choices made decades ago, and it shows. The technical Mac folks I know aren't switching. They're just yelling a lot, and if they're on pre-butterfly keyboard Macs, they're putting off upgrades. Of course, the VERY nerdy/technical folks can and do sometimes switch to full time Linux, but if you're used to the level of out-of-the-box just-works functionality you get out of OS X that's a hard sell.