4 ms·

Seems like the fairly unambiguous instance of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribute_substitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribute_substitution. U

Seems like the fairly unambiguous instance of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribute_substitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribute_substitution. Urban traffic congestion is a difficult, complex problem. So, instead of the nontrivial question posed by the proposition on the ballot of "Would this measure succeed in its stated goal, in the face of evidence that prior attempts have failed, and have the factor(s) which caused the prior failures been mitigated?" the simpler question that the mind solves is (and, given the results, answered in the positive) "I hate traffic. This measure claims it will help. Should I support it?" Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow" is a damned good read on these sorts of things.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Congestion is an unsolvable problem. If there's congestion it just means that those people have a higher tolerance (or less alternatives) for sitting in traffic (or standing on a clusterfuck of a subway platform) than whatever your threshold is for deciding what is and isn't "congestion". Consjestion isn't just about cars. You can generalize it to all forms of transit (MTA anyone?). You can't "solve" congestion. At best you can add additional capacity (of the same type or a different type) in order to reduce the amount of time when congestion is at its worst. Instead of "rush hour" being from 3-7 increased capacity (of any type, people will naturally load balance by choosing the least worst option for their situation) could potentially make it only from 4-6 by allowing the same number of trips to happen in less time. If you add capacity (of any type) and congestion is unchanged that is still a win because it means more trips are being taken which is an indication of more stuff getting done, more commerce, higher quality of life).
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  It is not necessarily a win. In the case of highways, often times new greenfield development that is spurred on is just development being reshuffled across the region, so you spend money to make the same amount. It’s true that transit doesn’t solve congestion; however, it provides an extremely high capacity alternative. Speed and reliability of a highway lane is approx 2k people per hour, but try nudging past that and you start getting phantom traffic jams. The New York City subway has a theoretical peak capacity of 60k people per hour.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

Congestion is an unsolvable problem. If there's congestion it just means that those people have a higher tolerance (or less alternatives) for sitting in traffic (or standing on a clusterfuck of a subway platform) than whatever your threshold is for deciding what is and isn't "congestion". Consjestion isn't just about cars. You can generalize it to all forms of transit (MTA anyone?). You can't "solve" congestion. At best you can add additional capacity (of the same type or a different type) in order to reduce the amount of time when congestion is at its worst. Instead of "rush hour" being from 3-7 increased capacity (of any type, people will naturally load balance by choosing the least worst option for their situation) could potentially make it only from 4-6 by allowing the same number of trips to happen in less time. If you add capacity (of any type) and congestion is unchanged that is still a win because it means more trips are being taken which is an indication of more stuff getting done, more commerce, higher quality of life).

bobthepanda 8y ago
It is not necessarily a win. In the case of highways, often times new greenfield development that is spurred on is just development being reshuffled across the region, so you spend money to make the same amount. It’s true that transit doesn’t solve congestion; however, it provides an extremely high capacity alternative. Speed and reliability of a highway lane is approx 2k people per hour, but try nudging past that and you start getting phantom traffic jams. The New York City subway has a theoretical peak capacity of 60k people per hour.