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There are many fun and fascinating similarities to find when comparing the Ottoman Janissaries and the Roman Praetorian Guard. Both were established as elite d

There are many fun and fascinating similarities to find when comparing the Ottoman Janissaries and the Roman Praetorian Guard. Both were established as elite divisions, handpicked for loyalty to the ruler, and stationed near the capital to discourage power grabs and revolutions. Over time they both (figuratively) grew fat and lazy and came to understand and abuse the power that they held. They both turned into “king makers” for the empire, it being impossible to take the throne without their support. Some sordid tales here on both sides. Then, after years of havoc and instability in their respective empires, a strong emperor claims the throne without their help and then removes them from any position of power.

bovermyer 8y ago
This peaks my interest. Do you have any book recommendations that explore this?
- cobbzilla 8y ago
  Gibbon's "History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" was my first introduction to the Praetorians, I listened to it via free audiobook [1]. I forgot about where I first learned about the Ottoman history with the Janissaries. [1] http://www.loyalbooks.com/book/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire-vol-i-by-edward-gibbon http://www.loyalbooks.com/book/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-r...
  - bovermyer 8y ago
    Thanks!
- velcrovan 8y ago
  It actually piques your interest.
  - bovermyer 8y ago
    Yeah, thanks. Brain wasn't working well this morning! I usually pride myself on not making typos like that. =/
gumby 8y ago
Likely because the Ottomans booted out the eastern Roman Empire and adopted many of its structures either explicitly or implicitly ("because that's how they do things here"). I've been told the same is true of the Roman Catholic Church (many people have told me "The Church didn't change Rome; Rome changed the Church) but I don't know enough about the RCC to know how this might be true (e.g. I'm pretty sure there is not a Praetorian Guard; the Swiss Guards are hardly the same thing, and are modern)
- cobbzilla 8y ago
  The Praetorians were disbanded in 312 [1], while the Janissaries were established about one thousand years later, in the early 1300s. By that time the Roman culture of the early empire had transformed into the predominantly Greek culture of the Byzantines. While undoubtedly there exist many uninterrupted lines of cultural transmission from the 300s to the 1300s, I'd need to see some historical evidence of any influence the Praetorians had on the Ottoman sultans; in fact, if Murad knew about them, he may well have not created the institution of the Janissaries. I find it much more likely that there are many flavors of "natural" power structures/dynamics that emerge in societies, dependent on many factors, an important one being the current state of technology (for example, speed of communications). The organization of Roman and Ottoman society and government, although separated by a millennium of time, were close enough that a similar political/power dynamic developed. It's just a pattern that plays out over centuries (~300 years for the Praetorians, ~500 years for the Janissaries). The originator of the scheme cannot see hundreds of years into the future when everything goes haywire. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard#Dissolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard#Dissolution [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries#Origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries#Origins
  - gumby 8y ago
    Thanks for this major clarification.

bovermyer 8y ago

This peaks my interest. Do you have any book recommendations that explore this?

cobbzilla 8y ago
Gibbon's "History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" was my first introduction to the Praetorians, I listened to it via free audiobook [1]. I forgot about where I first learned about the Ottoman history with the Janissaries. [1] http://www.loyalbooks.com/book/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire-vol-i-by-edward-gibbon http://www.loyalbooks.com/book/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-r...
- bovermyer 8y ago
  Thanks!
velcrovan 8y ago
It actually piques your interest.
- bovermyer 8y ago
  Yeah, thanks. Brain wasn't working well this morning! I usually pride myself on not making typos like that. =/

gumby 8y ago

Likely because the Ottomans booted out the eastern Roman Empire and adopted many of its structures either explicitly or implicitly ("because that's how they do things here"). I've been told the same is true of the Roman Catholic Church (many people have told me "The Church didn't change Rome; Rome changed the Church) but I don't know enough about the RCC to know how this might be true (e.g. I'm pretty sure there is not a Praetorian Guard; the Swiss Guards are hardly the same thing, and are modern)

cobbzilla 8y ago
The Praetorians were disbanded in 312 [1], while the Janissaries were established about one thousand years later, in the early 1300s. By that time the Roman culture of the early empire had transformed into the predominantly Greek culture of the Byzantines. While undoubtedly there exist many uninterrupted lines of cultural transmission from the 300s to the 1300s, I'd need to see some historical evidence of any influence the Praetorians had on the Ottoman sultans; in fact, if Murad knew about them, he may well have not created the institution of the Janissaries. I find it much more likely that there are many flavors of "natural" power structures/dynamics that emerge in societies, dependent on many factors, an important one being the current state of technology (for example, speed of communications). The organization of Roman and Ottoman society and government, although separated by a millennium of time, were close enough that a similar political/power dynamic developed. It's just a pattern that plays out over centuries (~300 years for the Praetorians, ~500 years for the Janissaries). The originator of the scheme cannot see hundreds of years into the future when everything goes haywire. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard#Dissolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard#Dissolution [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries#Origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries#Origins
- gumby 8y ago
  Thanks for this major clarification.