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Fish Oil Use in Pregnancy Didn’t Make Babies Smart

12 points by seshagiric 16y ago

pyre 16y ago
It's more important to get vitamin d than to worry about loading up on omega-fatty acids so that you're baby will get into a good university. I forget if it was something submitted to HN or not, but I've seen suggestions that vitamin d deficiency might be a cause of Autism. It certainly doesn't seem that far-fetched, but IIRC the study was only based in Oregon (or at least some of the data being quoted was).
- adammichaelc 16y ago
  The vitamin D theory of autism http://alliancept.us/vitamind/articles/Autism-Cannell1107.pdf http://alliancept.us/vitamind/articles/Autism-Cannell1107.pd... (recently this theory was accepted by a team of Harvard researchers; more research needs to be done but it looks quite promising)
  - borism 16y ago
    is Autism a disorder? (I suspect it's autist in me asking)
  - blueben 16y ago
    This is interesting. One might also assume an increase in autism rates among babies developing in the womb during winter months and babies developing in northern climates. Is this true? Do spring and summer babies have a higher rate of autism?
    - adammichaelc 16y ago
      Babies born in March have the highest autism rate, and black children have higher rates than whites, due to (if the theory is true) vitamin D production being lower in blacks due to high melanin content in the skin. There are several other data points in the study -- it's a good read, albeit quite technical. I'm still pre-med, so much of it is above my head.
- kristiandupont 16y ago
  Do you have a source for that? I mean, there are many things you should be concerned about if you are suffering from deficiency - is vitamin D unusually bad or just more common?
  - blueben 16y ago
    Vitamin D is vital to dozens of critical processes in the body. Vitamin D deficiency can lead to developing rickets and bone loss. Studies have linked lower winter-time levels of Vitamin D with proliferation of influenza. Studies also suggest that Vitamin D disruptions can increase the risk of breast cancer, and consuming the RDA of Vitamin D significantly reduces (by 43%) the occurrence of pancreatic cancer. So yeah, Vitamin D is pretty important. Get about 10-15 minutes of sun exposure at least 3 times a week.
baddox 16y ago
Maybe they should try snake oil.
robchez 16y ago
Omega3 (Specifically DHA) Fish Oil has so many other benefits its ridiculous. If you are not getting enough (chances are you aren't) you should really add them to your regime.
- timcederman 16y ago
  I was relatively skeptical, but I am surprised at the rather drastic benefits it has shown to my blood pressure and cholesterol.
- nodata 16y ago
  Can you back this up please? The science says Omega3 is not worth it: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/ http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplem...
  - Evgeny 16y ago
    Maybe the supplement is not worth it, but the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 has been shown to be important. The proper ratio should be somewhat close to 1:1, but the current western diet is more like 10:1 (10 omega 6, 1 omega 3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909 Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. Also, http://www.physorg.com/news198518697.html http://www.physorg.com/news198518697.html
jseifer 16y ago
Ray Peat has some not so positive things to say about fish oil: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  Is there a tl;dr version of his thesis anywhere?
geekman 16y ago
I don't have an issue with the conclusions about making babies smart. However it's different with maternal depression. If you read the original study, there was a 91% probability that the DHA reduced severe maternal depression. In the study the reduction in severe depression was 15%. However because 91% probability is less than the gold standard of 95% probability it was not conclusively proven. Given the study design, a reduction of 35% would have been required before it would have been found to be proven ie statistically significant. Unfortunately, showing an innumeracy that is common in the medical world, they claimed they had shown there is no relationship, which is plainly false. It is also worth pointing out that the study was prompted by earlier studies that showed eating fish had all sorts of benefits. But in the study they only gave one component of fish oil (DHA) in substantial quantities. Fish also contain protein, minerals, other vitamins, Omega3 EPA and many other beneficial nutrients. So by no means did they show no benefit from eating fish. Finally the study did have a major reduction in the incidence of pre-term deliveries. Some of the "no results" statistics were only obtained by artificially removing the effects of this reduction in premature births from the analysis. If you are concerned about, or have a history of pre-term delivery it is worth considering fish oil for this benefit alone.

12 points by seshagiric 16y ago

pyre 16y ago

It's more important to get vitamin d than to worry about loading up on omega-fatty acids so that you're baby will get into a good university. I forget if it was something submitted to HN or not, but I've seen suggestions that vitamin d deficiency might be a cause of Autism. It certainly doesn't seem that far-fetched, but IIRC the study was only based in Oregon (or at least some of the data being quoted was).

adammichaelc 16y ago
The vitamin D theory of autism http://alliancept.us/vitamind/articles/Autism-Cannell1107.pdf http://alliancept.us/vitamind/articles/Autism-Cannell1107.pd... (recently this theory was accepted by a team of Harvard researchers; more research needs to be done but it looks quite promising)
- borism 16y ago
  is Autism a disorder? (I suspect it's autist in me asking)
- blueben 16y ago
  This is interesting. One might also assume an increase in autism rates among babies developing in the womb during winter months and babies developing in northern climates. Is this true? Do spring and summer babies have a higher rate of autism?
  - adammichaelc 16y ago
    Babies born in March have the highest autism rate, and black children have higher rates than whites, due to (if the theory is true) vitamin D production being lower in blacks due to high melanin content in the skin. There are several other data points in the study -- it's a good read, albeit quite technical. I'm still pre-med, so much of it is above my head.
kristiandupont 16y ago
Do you have a source for that? I mean, there are many things you should be concerned about if you are suffering from deficiency - is vitamin D unusually bad or just more common?
- blueben 16y ago
  Vitamin D is vital to dozens of critical processes in the body. Vitamin D deficiency can lead to developing rickets and bone loss. Studies have linked lower winter-time levels of Vitamin D with proliferation of influenza. Studies also suggest that Vitamin D disruptions can increase the risk of breast cancer, and consuming the RDA of Vitamin D significantly reduces (by 43%) the occurrence of pancreatic cancer. So yeah, Vitamin D is pretty important. Get about 10-15 minutes of sun exposure at least 3 times a week.

baddox 16y ago

Maybe they should try snake oil.

robchez 16y ago

Omega3 (Specifically DHA) Fish Oil has so many other benefits its ridiculous. If you are not getting enough (chances are you aren't) you should really add them to your regime.

timcederman 16y ago
I was relatively skeptical, but I am surprised at the rather drastic benefits it has shown to my blood pressure and cholesterol.
nodata 16y ago
Can you back this up please? The science says Omega3 is not worth it: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/ http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplem...
- Evgeny 16y ago
  Maybe the supplement is not worth it, but the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 has been shown to be important. The proper ratio should be somewhat close to 1:1, but the current western diet is more like 10:1 (10 omega 6, 1 omega 3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909 Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. Also, http://www.physorg.com/news198518697.html http://www.physorg.com/news198518697.html

jseifer 16y ago

Ray Peat has some not so positive things to say about fish oil: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml.

CamperBob 16y ago
Is there a tl;dr version of his thesis anywhere?

geekman 16y ago

I don't have an issue with the conclusions about making babies smart. However it's different with maternal depression. If you read the original study, there was a 91% probability that the DHA reduced severe maternal depression. In the study the reduction in severe depression was 15%. However because 91% probability is less than the gold standard of 95% probability it was not conclusively proven. Given the study design, a reduction of 35% would have been required before it would have been found to be proven ie statistically significant. Unfortunately, showing an innumeracy that is common in the medical world, they claimed they had shown there is no relationship, which is plainly false. It is also worth pointing out that the study was prompted by earlier studies that showed eating fish had all sorts of benefits. But in the study they only gave one component of fish oil (DHA) in substantial quantities. Fish also contain protein, minerals, other vitamins, Omega3 EPA and many other beneficial nutrients. So by no means did they show no benefit from eating fish. Finally the study did have a major reduction in the incidence of pre-term deliveries. Some of the "no results" statistics were only obtained by artificially removing the effects of this reduction in premature births from the analysis. If you are concerned about, or have a history of pre-term delivery it is worth considering fish oil for this benefit alone.