4 ms·

I wonder what IP lawyers think about republishing works without permission into a network where nothing can be deleted.

viraptor 8y ago
Ipfs doesn't bring anything new for this case. Probably the same as they think of any website containing republished works without permission. Once everyone with a copy deletes it, it disappears. Both for ipfs and the internet on general.
- Jaymoon85 8y ago
  Except the discovery of said works would give IPFS the advantage. If a website is taken down or removes the works, finding it somewhere else becomes the challenge, even though it still exists elsewhere. With IPFS however, anyone with the file makes it available to anyone looking for it, regardless of who has it, or how many copies there are.
Pristina 8y ago
probably the same way a slave owner thinks when you tell them slave owning is immoral and is a violation other people's self-ownership.
- mikro2nd 8y ago
  Let's say I write something -- a story, perhaps. And I publish it. I own the IP, and it is my only source of income. How do you consider that the equivalent of slave ownership?
  - y4mi 8y ago
    The basic idea behind the parents argument is that you cannot own knowledge. There are several arguments for this idea, and massive challenges to overcome if you actually try to act on this idea. One of these challenges is how authors and similar content creators could possibly make a living in a world, where everything they produce can be copied by anyone. There are several thought experiments which try to address this problem, none of which have been successfully implemented large-scale in real life (at least to my knowledge). but the fact that challenges arise from such an idea does not discredit the validity of said idea. it just means that we haven't found a sustainable way live by that ideal
    - wwwtyro 8y ago
      There's the Street Performer Protocol: https://www.schneier.com/academic/archives/1998/11/the_street_performer.html https://www.schneier.com/academic/archives/1998/11/the_stree...
      - y4mi 8y ago
        > none of which have been successfully implemented large-scale in real life to be honest, I've never read of a major example successfully utilizing that. If you're just mentioning things which ever attempted to solve that issue: there have been a lot UBI (universal basic income) comes to mind, just like services such as Patreon, on which people essentially donate to producers with negligible rewards. Some music bands also give away their music for free and try to make their living with concerts... there have been countless attempts, honestly. But they're ultimately of negligible impact if you compare their revenue to top selling products. that's what i meant with successful and large scale.
joeblau 8y ago
I was listening to this Hashing It Out Episode with the founders of Storj[1] yesterday. Apparently IPFS isn't even that resilient. The Storj founders said that if you take a look at the IPFS sub-Reddit, half of the links don't work. That's not to discount what you're asking about, but it seems like the gamification for keeping IPFS files up forever is not a huge issue at the moment. [1] - http://thebitcoinpodcast.com/hashing-it-out-34/ http://thebitcoinpodcast.com/hashing-it-out-34/
- hecturchi 8y ago
  StorJ is a incentivized (people get paid to make things available) and IPFS is not. They explain this in the podcast and mention it several times. IPFS is perfectly resilient as long as the network participants have the interest in keeping the content available.
  - prophesi 8y ago
    Yeah, IPFS is still waiting for FileCoin to be implemented. For now, your best bet is to run your own IPFS gateway with your data pinned to it, and perhaps ask fellow IPFS enthusiasts to do the same.

Ipfs doesn't bring anything new for this case. Probably the same as they think of any website containing republished works without permission. Once everyone with a copy deletes it, it disappears. Both for ipfs and the internet on general.

Jaymoon85 8y ago
Except the discovery of said works would give IPFS the advantage. If a website is taken down or removes the works, finding it somewhere else becomes the challenge, even though it still exists elsewhere. With IPFS however, anyone with the file makes it available to anyone looking for it, regardless of who has it, or how many copies there are.

Pristina 8y ago

probably the same way a slave owner thinks when you tell them slave owning is immoral and is a violation other people's self-ownership.

mikro2nd 8y ago
Let's say I write something -- a story, perhaps. And I publish it. I own the IP, and it is my only source of income. How do you consider that the equivalent of slave ownership?
- y4mi 8y ago
  The basic idea behind the parents argument is that you cannot own knowledge. There are several arguments for this idea, and massive challenges to overcome if you actually try to act on this idea. One of these challenges is how authors and similar content creators could possibly make a living in a world, where everything they produce can be copied by anyone. There are several thought experiments which try to address this problem, none of which have been successfully implemented large-scale in real life (at least to my knowledge). but the fact that challenges arise from such an idea does not discredit the validity of said idea. it just means that we haven't found a sustainable way live by that ideal
  - wwwtyro 8y ago
    There's the Street Performer Protocol: https://www.schneier.com/academic/archives/1998/11/the_street_performer.html https://www.schneier.com/academic/archives/1998/11/the_stree...
    - y4mi 8y ago
      > none of which have been successfully implemented large-scale in real life to be honest, I've never read of a major example successfully utilizing that. If you're just mentioning things which ever attempted to solve that issue: there have been a lot UBI (universal basic income) comes to mind, just like services such as Patreon, on which people essentially donate to producers with negligible rewards. Some music bands also give away their music for free and try to make their living with concerts... there have been countless attempts, honestly. But they're ultimately of negligible impact if you compare their revenue to top selling products. that's what i meant with successful and large scale.

joeblau 8y ago

I was listening to this Hashing It Out Episode with the founders of Storj[1] yesterday. Apparently IPFS isn't even that resilient. The Storj founders said that if you take a look at the IPFS sub-Reddit, half of the links don't work. That's not to discount what you're asking about, but it seems like the gamification for keeping IPFS files up forever is not a huge issue at the moment. [1] - http://thebitcoinpodcast.com/hashing-it-out-34/ http://thebitcoinpodcast.com/hashing-it-out-34/

hecturchi 8y ago
StorJ is a incentivized (people get paid to make things available) and IPFS is not. They explain this in the podcast and mention it several times. IPFS is perfectly resilient as long as the network participants have the interest in keeping the content available.
- prophesi 8y ago
  Yeah, IPFS is still waiting for FileCoin to be implemented. For now, your best bet is to run your own IPFS gateway with your data pinned to it, and perhaps ask fellow IPFS enthusiasts to do the same.