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Is there a set of circumstances that could result in someone being born in Israel without gaining citizenship, while also not getting citizenship in the country

Is there a set of circumstances that could result in someone being born in Israel without gaining citizenship, while also not getting citizenship in the country their parents were from?

cwzwarich 8y ago
This sort of thing is technically possible for children of Indian citizens born in countries without birth citizenship, see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Citizenship_by_descent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Citizen.... Given that millions of Indians live in Persian gulf countries with these sorts of citizenship laws, I wonder if it has ever happened.
- taejo 8y ago
  Statelessness absolutely does happen. On 13 November 2018, Filippo Grandi, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said there are about 12 million stateless people in the world.
mey 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness
- p1necone 8y ago
  I did find this, but prompting discussion to read on hacker news instead is so much more interesting :)
jnbiche 8y ago
I think that in the vast, vast majority of countries (all of them?), you receive the citizenship of your parents, regardless of the country in which you're born. So unless therhttps://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jnbichee's https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jnbichee's a country where this is not the case, the situation you're describing would not occur. And if there is such a country, the problem would not be unique to Israel, since birthright citizenship is not practiced in many (most?) countries. Edit: Interesting. As user cwzwarich points out, it appears that India is indeed such a country. So looks like it's possible to be stateless at birth if you're Indian and born in one of the many countries without birthright citizenship. That said, all an Indian citizen has to do if that happens is to report the birth at an Indian embassy within 1 year of the birth, and then the child is an Indian citizen. But if your parents are irresponsible or unaware of the law...
- rahimnathwani 8y ago
  "I think that in the vast, vast majority of countries (all of them?), you receive the citizenship of your parents, regardless of the country in which you're born." For the UK at least, it's not that simple, unless your parents were born in the UK. If your parents citizenship is due solely to one/both of your grandparents being UK citizens (i.e. your parents were also born overseas), you might not be entitled to UK citizenship. I don't recall the details, but IIRC you need to live in the UK for some time in order to pass on citizenship to your child. The US has similar rules.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jnbiche 8y ago
    > The US has similar rules. US doesn't have citizenship by descent (the grandparents situation you're describing). So it has no similar rules.
    - joshuamorton 8y ago
      Yes it does. It can get complex, but in the simplest case, if your parents are married and both citizens, you will be to, no matter where you were born.
      - jnbiche 8y ago
        I'm well aware of this, since I have close family that your situation applies to. Actually, if your parents are married and even one is a US citizen, you will be too, always. This may just be a terminology disagreement, but that's typically not what is considered "citizenship by descent". What we're describing is considered by the US to be "citizenship by parents" or "acquired citizenship". On the other hand, "citizenship by descent" is the European tradition of awarding citizenship to grandchildren and even great-grandchildren of citizens. The US doesn't have citizenship by descent (in fact, it's true that there's a single situation when your grandparent's citizenship can matter to someone trying to assert US citizenship, but it's only as a kind of "tiebreaker" if your parents weren't married and one was a US citizen).

Is there a set of circumstances that could result in someone being born in Israel without gaining citizenship, while also not getting citizenship in the country their parents were from?

cwzwarich 8y ago

This sort of thing is technically possible for children of Indian citizens born in countries without birth citizenship, see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Citizenship_by_descent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Citizen.... Given that millions of Indians live in Persian gulf countries with these sorts of citizenship laws, I wonder if it has ever happened.

taejo 8y ago
Statelessness absolutely does happen. On 13 November 2018, Filippo Grandi, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said there are about 12 million stateless people in the world.

mey 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness

p1necone 8y ago
I did find this, but prompting discussion to read on hacker news instead is so much more interesting :)

jnbiche 8y ago

I think that in the vast, vast majority of countries (all of them?), you receive the citizenship of your parents, regardless of the country in which you're born. So unless therhttps://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jnbichee's https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jnbichee's a country where this is not the case, the situation you're describing would not occur. And if there is such a country, the problem would not be unique to Israel, since birthright citizenship is not practiced in many (most?) countries. Edit: Interesting. As user cwzwarich points out, it appears that India is indeed such a country. So looks like it's possible to be stateless at birth if you're Indian and born in one of the many countries without birthright citizenship. That said, all an Indian citizen has to do if that happens is to report the birth at an Indian embassy within 1 year of the birth, and then the child is an Indian citizen. But if your parents are irresponsible or unaware of the law...

rahimnathwani 8y ago
"I think that in the vast, vast majority of countries (all of them?), you receive the citizenship of your parents, regardless of the country in which you're born." For the UK at least, it's not that simple, unless your parents were born in the UK. If your parents citizenship is due solely to one/both of your grandparents being UK citizens (i.e. your parents were also born overseas), you might not be entitled to UK citizenship. I don't recall the details, but IIRC you need to live in the UK for some time in order to pass on citizenship to your child. The US has similar rules.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jnbiche 8y ago
  > The US has similar rules. US doesn't have citizenship by descent (the grandparents situation you're describing). So it has no similar rules.
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    Yes it does. It can get complex, but in the simplest case, if your parents are married and both citizens, you will be to, no matter where you were born.
    - jnbiche 8y ago
      I'm well aware of this, since I have close family that your situation applies to. Actually, if your parents are married and even one is a US citizen, you will be too, always. This may just be a terminology disagreement, but that's typically not what is considered "citizenship by descent". What we're describing is considered by the US to be "citizenship by parents" or "acquired citizenship". On the other hand, "citizenship by descent" is the European tradition of awarding citizenship to grandchildren and even great-grandchildren of citizens. The US doesn't have citizenship by descent (in fact, it's true that there's a single situation when your grandparent's citizenship can matter to someone trying to assert US citizenship, but it's only as a kind of "tiebreaker" if your parents weren't married and one was a US citizen).