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It seems towards the end like one of the paper's authors demurs: > “I take issue with using ‘tipping point’ to describe the accelerating mass loss Greenland is

It seems towards the end like one of the paper's authors demurs: > “I take issue with using ‘tipping point’ to describe the accelerating mass loss Greenland is experiencing,” But then: > Dr. Trusel agreed that talk of tipping points could discount the humans’ ability to mitigate global warming. because “it makes it appear as if we have passed, or soon will pass, the point of no return.” She said she saw reasons for hope. And it becomes clear that the 'reasons for hope' are vague & wild misty-eyed theoretical dreams, against all of the prevailing trends and evidence, of global political change. Even scientists must believe in miracles, it seems.

munk-a 8y ago
So, we as a society have a serious issue to deal with. Putting a deadline on the issue will push a portion of the population into the camp of "Let's wait and see if this is actually the case" when they are proved right we'd be unable to act, or, if luck was on our side, and some solution was still available then that portion of the population would disbelieve the urgency since one deadline had already passed. Setting a deadline provides no wins for enacting meaningful change.
- crispinb 8y ago
  I'm not sure what your 'deadline' refers to, but in any case the relevant deadline would be 'critically urgent'. We've had this 'serious issue' to deal with for 40 years or more. It is still technically feasible to do something, but the window of political possibility has clearly passed.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    I was referring to the existence of a "Tipping Point" psychologically points of no return usually don't have the motivational effect we'd naively assume they do. Generally viewing something as a constantly increasing danger is more motivational. I am... hopelessly optimistic... but with that said I feel like climate change awareness has really increased since the last presidential election. My terrible optimism is fueling my hope that it'll play a more central role in our next round of policy pushing.
    - crispinb 8y ago
      OK got it - misunderstood you. I'm not entirely sure I agree in the sense that if people really feel an imminent danger they can pull together and make sacrifices. But even when phrased as a 'tipping point', climate collapse is just not visceral enough to produce that kind of reaction. Personally I think we're toast (though I'd forgo the 'pessimist' label).

munk-a 8y ago

So, we as a society have a serious issue to deal with. Putting a deadline on the issue will push a portion of the population into the camp of "Let's wait and see if this is actually the case" when they are proved right we'd be unable to act, or, if luck was on our side, and some solution was still available then that portion of the population would disbelieve the urgency since one deadline had already passed. Setting a deadline provides no wins for enacting meaningful change.

crispinb 8y ago
I'm not sure what your 'deadline' refers to, but in any case the relevant deadline would be 'critically urgent'. We've had this 'serious issue' to deal with for 40 years or more. It is still technically feasible to do something, but the window of political possibility has clearly passed.
- munk-a 8y ago
  I was referring to the existence of a "Tipping Point" psychologically points of no return usually don't have the motivational effect we'd naively assume they do. Generally viewing something as a constantly increasing danger is more motivational. I am... hopelessly optimistic... but with that said I feel like climate change awareness has really increased since the last presidential election. My terrible optimism is fueling my hope that it'll play a more central role in our next round of policy pushing.
  - crispinb 8y ago
    OK got it - misunderstood you. I'm not entirely sure I agree in the sense that if people really feel an imminent danger they can pull together and make sacrifices. But even when phrased as a 'tipping point', climate collapse is just not visceral enough to produce that kind of reaction. Personally I think we're toast (though I'd forgo the 'pessimist' label).