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I guess the meta consideration for Nietzches world is that it also must be that case that everyone tolerates that world and that no one is intolerant of it, bec

I guess the meta consideration for Nietzches world is that it also must be that case that everyone tolerates that world and that no one is intolerant of it, because if any individual is intolerant of that particular world and that particular life they will chose not to live it and break that world. What I take from this is that there is just an endless dialectical loop that will play out ad infinitum where one group will vie for power over another and at some point succeed and they in turn will have the same thing happen to them.

zaarn 8y ago
Possibly, yes. The senseless up and down of society has, however, driven humanity to land on the moon, so I guess it's good enough to keep us going. So as long as it keeps going ad infinitum, that's also progress; constant change.
- james_s_tayler 8y ago
  I disagree it's progress. I think it is just constant change. I also think it's likely unavoidable, so I don't lament about it too much. Actually when I read Why Nations Fail was the first time I realised that things don't only go in the direction of progress and that sometimes all the progress a society has made is erased and things revert. That got me to consider that it will happen to us at some point too. Actually, though this is an interesting point to philosophise on and I find Nietzsche a fun thinker. I guess what you are alluding to saying that this endless loop is always driving forward progress (or maybe your distinction is that it is always progressing and that isn't necessarily a value judgement on whether the 'progress' is good or bad, just that the situation is always becoming different), is that perhaps and I think that in some way this is the case that our actions and the record of it sort of acts like a ratchet. That is, it turns one way and once it turns that way it doesn't turn back the other way. That's analagous to 'some things can't be unseen' I suppose. Even if it's all reset you can't negate how far we did come this time.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    >or maybe your distinction is that it is always progressing and that isn't necessarily a value judgement on whether the 'progress' is good or bad, just that the situation is always becoming different That would be part of it, not all progress is what we think of as good but it's progress, evolution of the status quo. The ratchet analogy also fits IMO.

zaarn 8y ago

Possibly, yes. The senseless up and down of society has, however, driven humanity to land on the moon, so I guess it's good enough to keep us going. So as long as it keeps going ad infinitum, that's also progress; constant change.

james_s_tayler 8y ago
I disagree it's progress. I think it is just constant change. I also think it's likely unavoidable, so I don't lament about it too much. Actually when I read Why Nations Fail was the first time I realised that things don't only go in the direction of progress and that sometimes all the progress a society has made is erased and things revert. That got me to consider that it will happen to us at some point too. Actually, though this is an interesting point to philosophise on and I find Nietzsche a fun thinker. I guess what you are alluding to saying that this endless loop is always driving forward progress (or maybe your distinction is that it is always progressing and that isn't necessarily a value judgement on whether the 'progress' is good or bad, just that the situation is always becoming different), is that perhaps and I think that in some way this is the case that our actions and the record of it sort of acts like a ratchet. That is, it turns one way and once it turns that way it doesn't turn back the other way. That's analagous to 'some things can't be unseen' I suppose. Even if it's all reset you can't negate how far we did come this time.
- zaarn 8y ago
  >or maybe your distinction is that it is always progressing and that isn't necessarily a value judgement on whether the 'progress' is good or bad, just that the situation is always becoming different That would be part of it, not all progress is what we think of as good but it's progress, evolution of the status quo. The ratchet analogy also fits IMO.