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Are you saying the tech industry doesn't have a diversity problem? Isn't the gender ratio all the evidence you need?

by robax 8y ago

WillPostForFood 8y ago
No, and no, but the point is the author should be inviting those that disagree to read, not trying to fence them out.
- kcmastrpc 8y ago
  You're right, and I won't make that mistake again.
- Pica_soO 8y ago
  Its not about diversity, its about controlling the discourse and the social narrative of a society- aka, its about power. Real discussion could erode those artificial boundaries and propaganda towers. They want you to yell, but they dont want you to talk.
squirrelicus 8y ago
It's not clear what it's evidence of. At the very least, it's part of a very large, universal, and systemic body of societal evidence that (1) Women and men tend to (when considering large numbers) choose different professions when they are choosing freely for themselves (2) The more egalitarian and socially inclusive a society is, the more the differences between women and men are exaggerated, especially in career choices. I want women and men to choose occupations that are easy for them to find long term meaning in. I don't want my girls choosing STEM because they feel like they're less-than if they don't. Here's a reductio ad absurdum: is it a diversity and inclusion problem that there are almost no female bering sea crab fisherwomen or oil rig workers? Men are more willing to choose more lethal professions, it's part of what our hormones tell us to do.
- kcmastrpc 8y ago
  We can't compare high-risk jobs with IT, for obvious reasons. I'm merely suggesting a correlation between the proliferation of alcohol in our industry, the parties, the trade shows, with the prevalence of young white males in our line of work. I merely found data which loosely supports (and you could successfully argue that it has no correlation) my hypothesis.
  - squirrelicus 8y ago
    It's not clear what the obvious reasons are. There's a very large body of universal, systemic evidence that women are (in large numbers) more interested in people than things, and vice versa for males. IT is a very thing-oriented industry. When women choose not to do IT freely of their own preferences, we should not react by suggesting that men are the problem.
- rhacker 8y ago
  However, and this is where things get interesting, but as we equalize genders more, the stereotypes DO break down. Girls at a young age play with tonka trucks (if those even exist still). And start wearing pants. More people are gay, but also more people are doing jobs that they would have rather done. The sex we see in porn stops objectifying women, perhaps men instead even. I definitely see more women in construction, more men in nursing, and definitely in non-Western countries women in software development.
  - squirrelicus 8y ago
    Yeah the data contradict your assertions about career choices. I don't want "I definitely see"s. Data is not the plural of anecdote. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/does-gender-equality-result-in-fewer-female-stem-grads https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/does-gender-equality-... EDIT: To be clear, I wish you were right. I want you to be right. But you're just not, and it's slightly tragic, but mostly the data should cause us to reorient ourselves around how we interpret the data, because the social constructionists' theories are just wrong.
yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
Would you apply this logic to other industries? Does nursing have a diversity problem? How about mining?
CyberDildonics 8y ago
It is all the evidence you need if you don't care about sound statistics. I would think someone would at least want to look at the demographics of people applying vs people getting hired vs people qualified vs demographics of the general population.
rhacker 8y ago
James Demore trolls perhaps?
alkibiades 8y ago
no. that’s poor thinking. you have to prove the ratio is caused by what you say it’s caused by and not sometbing else. Is the gender ratio in prisons evidence of the matriarchy? Is the gender ratio in teaching because of systematic bias against men? What about the gender ratio in that more women graduate college than men?

Are you saying the tech industry doesn't have a diversity problem? Isn't the gender ratio all the evidence you need?

by robax 8y ago

Are you saying the tech industry doesn't have a diversity problem? Isn't the gender ratio all the evidence you need?

WillPostForFood 8y ago

No, and no, but the point is the author should be inviting those that disagree to read, not trying to fence them out.

kcmastrpc 8y ago
You're right, and I won't make that mistake again.
Pica_soO 8y ago
Its not about diversity, its about controlling the discourse and the social narrative of a society- aka, its about power. Real discussion could erode those artificial boundaries and propaganda towers. They want you to yell, but they dont want you to talk.

squirrelicus 8y ago

It's not clear what it's evidence of. At the very least, it's part of a very large, universal, and systemic body of societal evidence that (1) Women and men tend to (when considering large numbers) choose different professions when they are choosing freely for themselves (2) The more egalitarian and socially inclusive a society is, the more the differences between women and men are exaggerated, especially in career choices. I want women and men to choose occupations that are easy for them to find long term meaning in. I don't want my girls choosing STEM because they feel like they're less-than if they don't. Here's a reductio ad absurdum: is it a diversity and inclusion problem that there are almost no female bering sea crab fisherwomen or oil rig workers? Men are more willing to choose more lethal professions, it's part of what our hormones tell us to do.

kcmastrpc 8y ago
We can't compare high-risk jobs with IT, for obvious reasons. I'm merely suggesting a correlation between the proliferation of alcohol in our industry, the parties, the trade shows, with the prevalence of young white males in our line of work. I merely found data which loosely supports (and you could successfully argue that it has no correlation) my hypothesis.
- squirrelicus 8y ago
  It's not clear what the obvious reasons are. There's a very large body of universal, systemic evidence that women are (in large numbers) more interested in people than things, and vice versa for males. IT is a very thing-oriented industry. When women choose not to do IT freely of their own preferences, we should not react by suggesting that men are the problem.
rhacker 8y ago
However, and this is where things get interesting, but as we equalize genders more, the stereotypes DO break down. Girls at a young age play with tonka trucks (if those even exist still). And start wearing pants. More people are gay, but also more people are doing jobs that they would have rather done. The sex we see in porn stops objectifying women, perhaps men instead even. I definitely see more women in construction, more men in nursing, and definitely in non-Western countries women in software development.
- squirrelicus 8y ago
  Yeah the data contradict your assertions about career choices. I don't want "I definitely see"s. Data is not the plural of anecdote. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/does-gender-equality-result-in-fewer-female-stem-grads https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/does-gender-equality-... EDIT: To be clear, I wish you were right. I want you to be right. But you're just not, and it's slightly tragic, but mostly the data should cause us to reorient ourselves around how we interpret the data, because the social constructionists' theories are just wrong.

yakshaving_jgt 8y ago

Would you apply this logic to other industries? Does nursing have a diversity problem? How about mining?

CyberDildonics 8y ago

It is all the evidence you need if you don't care about sound statistics. I would think someone would at least want to look at the demographics of people applying vs people getting hired vs people qualified vs demographics of the general population.

rhacker 8y ago

James Demore trolls perhaps?

alkibiades 8y ago

no. that’s poor thinking. you have to prove the ratio is caused by what you say it’s caused by and not sometbing else. Is the gender ratio in prisons evidence of the matriarchy? Is the gender ratio in teaching because of systematic bias against men? What about the gender ratio in that more women graduate college than men?