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Why do you think that an unticked "personalize ads" box is a reasonable default? I, personally, when I browse internet, strongly prefer personalized ads (over

Why do you think that an unticked "personalize ads" box is a reasonable default? I, personally, when I browse internet, strongly prefer personalized ads (over non-personalized ads). Most users, probably, do not care either way (because they do not understand the implications). But the business (e.g. Google) cares about ads personalization a lot, because ads personalization significantly increases tax revenue and reduces number of irrelevant ads that users see. In this situation the reasonable default choice is to allow ads personalization, so the business will have ad revenue to function and deliver functionality users need.

xg15 8y ago
In this case, the EU per their democratic processes decided they need additional consent. Easy as that. > because they do not understand the implications This is the point. Relying on people not understanding something is not ethical and certainly not "reasonable".
- dennisgorelik 8y ago
  > EU per their democratic processes decided Do you imply that democratic process never make mistakes? > Relying on people not understanding something is not ethical CNIL bureaucrats rely on people not understanding, that these GDPR regulations make internet worse (annoying "accept/deny cookies" questions, less relevant ads, less revenue for businesses to create functionality users want). Would you say that CNIL is unethical?
  - xg15 8y ago
    How does the GDPR force any of that? Anyway, that's whataboutism.
whyever 8y ago
It's not about personal preference. The GDPR does not talk about a "reasonable default", but about "freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous" consent from the user. There must be a "clear affirmative act" by the user, so consent has to be opt-in.
- dennisgorelik 8y ago
  > There must be a "clear affirmative act" by the user ... according to GDPR. My point is that GDPR is bad (for internet users) at the very core (intent) of GDPR legislation. I claim that it is bad for internet users to force them to make cookies decisions for every website that wants to use cookies.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > I claim that it is bad for internet users to force them to make cookies decisions for every web site. Which EU law do you think forces this? Please can you link to it?
    - dennisgorelik 8y ago
      I meant "make cookies decisions for every website that wants to use cookies" (I just updated my comment). ========== https://eugdpr.org/the-regulation/ https://eugdpr.org/the-regulation/ The request for consent must be given ... ==========
      - detaro 8y ago
        more precise: for every website that wants to use cookies and choose (or had to choose for lack of alternatives) consent as their justification for processing. Not all data processing requires consent.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        Please can you paste the text that you think forces websites to gain consent for all cookies if that website uses cookies? The site you linked is not the law, it's some kind of blog. But let's use this site: where does it say that all cookies require opt-in consent?
        dennisgorelik 8y ago
        CNIL is intentionally vague, so I do not see a clear quote that demand consent form for cookies. But this is what we know: 1) Almost all popular web sites, that serve EU audience - added personalization consent form. 2) This is what CNIL defines as "personalization" --- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person; --- My estimate is that over 90% of popular web sites that use cookies -- use users' "personal data" (according to this definition). That is why I wrote "website that wants to use cookies". I, probably, should not focus on "cookies" and focus on "website personalization" instead. Almost all popular websites use "personal data". GDPR forces these websites to present "consent form" to users, whether users want to answer that consent question or not. I, as a user, do NOT want to be forced to see that "consent" question on my first visit of a website, but GDPR forces me to. That is abuse of government power.
AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
Personalized ads require some sort of your information to be stored, which is why I think that it is not a reasonable default. In addition to that by making the information collection opt-out you could easily track the privacy-minded that decide to disable it - see DNT for example.
zrobotics 8y ago
>>I, personally, when I browse internet, strongly prefer personalized ads Which is fine if you want to click the checkbox to enable personalization. But not everyone wants that personalization and tracking. For instance, I've found personalized ads to be worse than generic ads, where Google tries to sell me a product for weeks after I researched and purchased it. If you enjoy the personalized ads, there is nothing to stop you from opting in, but that shouldn't be the default behavior.
M2Ys4U 8y ago
>Most users, probably, do not care either way (because they do not understand the implications). But the business (e.g. Google) cares about ads personalization a lot, because ads personalization significantly increases tax revenue and reduces number of irrelevant ads that users see. This is exactly the reason for the GDPR. Users don't understand the implications and so they shouldn't be automatically opted-in to systems that violate their human rights.

xg15 8y ago

In this case, the EU per their democratic processes decided they need additional consent. Easy as that. > because they do not understand the implications This is the point. Relying on people not understanding something is not ethical and certainly not "reasonable".

dennisgorelik 8y ago
> EU per their democratic processes decided Do you imply that democratic process never make mistakes? > Relying on people not understanding something is not ethical CNIL bureaucrats rely on people not understanding, that these GDPR regulations make internet worse (annoying "accept/deny cookies" questions, less relevant ads, less revenue for businesses to create functionality users want). Would you say that CNIL is unethical?
- xg15 8y ago
  How does the GDPR force any of that? Anyway, that's whataboutism.

whyever 8y ago

It's not about personal preference. The GDPR does not talk about a "reasonable default", but about "freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous" consent from the user. There must be a "clear affirmative act" by the user, so consent has to be opt-in.

dennisgorelik 8y ago
> There must be a "clear affirmative act" by the user ... according to GDPR. My point is that GDPR is bad (for internet users) at the very core (intent) of GDPR legislation. I claim that it is bad for internet users to force them to make cookies decisions for every website that wants to use cookies.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > I claim that it is bad for internet users to force them to make cookies decisions for every web site. Which EU law do you think forces this? Please can you link to it?
  - dennisgorelik 8y ago
    I meant "make cookies decisions for every website that wants to use cookies" (I just updated my comment). ========== https://eugdpr.org/the-regulation/ https://eugdpr.org/the-regulation/ The request for consent must be given ... ==========
    - detaro 8y ago
      more precise: for every website that wants to use cookies and choose (or had to choose for lack of alternatives) consent as their justification for processing. Not all data processing requires consent.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      Please can you paste the text that you think forces websites to gain consent for all cookies if that website uses cookies? The site you linked is not the law, it's some kind of blog. But let's use this site: where does it say that all cookies require opt-in consent?
      - dennisgorelik 8y ago
        CNIL is intentionally vague, so I do not see a clear quote that demand consent form for cookies. But this is what we know: 1) Almost all popular web sites, that serve EU audience - added personalization consent form. 2) This is what CNIL defines as "personalization" --- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person; --- My estimate is that over 90% of popular web sites that use cookies -- use users' "personal data" (according to this definition). That is why I wrote "website that wants to use cookies". I, probably, should not focus on "cookies" and focus on "website personalization" instead. Almost all popular websites use "personal data". GDPR forces these websites to present "consent form" to users, whether users want to answer that consent question or not. I, as a user, do NOT want to be forced to see that "consent" question on my first visit of a website, but GDPR forces me to. That is abuse of government power.

AnaniasAnanas 8y ago

Personalized ads require some sort of your information to be stored, which is why I think that it is not a reasonable default. In addition to that by making the information collection opt-out you could easily track the privacy-minded that decide to disable it - see DNT for example.

zrobotics 8y ago

>>I, personally, when I browse internet, strongly prefer personalized ads Which is fine if you want to click the checkbox to enable personalization. But not everyone wants that personalization and tracking. For instance, I've found personalized ads to be worse than generic ads, where Google tries to sell me a product for weeks after I researched and purchased it. If you enjoy the personalized ads, there is nothing to stop you from opting in, but that shouldn't be the default behavior.

M2Ys4U 8y ago

>Most users, probably, do not care either way (because they do not understand the implications). But the business (e.g. Google) cares about ads personalization a lot, because ads personalization significantly increases tax revenue and reduces number of irrelevant ads that users see. This is exactly the reason for the GDPR. Users don't understand the implications and so they shouldn't be automatically opted-in to systems that violate their human rights.