6 ms·

The opinion section of the NYT, and also many of the long form articles, are selected and shaped by the editorial staff which has an agenda. I’ve noticed that p

The opinion section of the NYT, and also many of the long form articles, are selected and shaped by the editorial staff which has an agenda. I’ve noticed that popularized science articles are especially bad, and if the science touches even slightly a controversial issue like race or ancestry the meaning and nuance can be warped to match their agenda. This isn’t only the NYT but given their status as the premier news source in the USA it is the most glaring to me. Also, I know it’s become a trope to post this on HN as it’s basically gospel at this point, but The Submarine essay by Paul Graham gives some nice insight into the PR and media industry http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

ronnier 8y ago
Funny. I just read another “suits back in style” story yesterday. https://www.france24.com/en/20190119-dowdy-no-more-men-suits-storm-back-style https://www.france24.com/en/20190119-dowdy-no-more-men-suits...
- porpoisely 8y ago
  Great catch and that's hilarious. I saw the same story from multiple sources/platforms yesterday. I thought the paul graham article was about yesterday's news and then I read the date "April 2005". 14 years ago. Anyone who pays attention to news for any amount of time sees redundant news and agenda. But PR stooges? If PR firms are so entwined with traditional news and media, I wonder how entrench PR firms are in the social media space.
  - thwarted 8y ago
    If PR firms are so entwined with traditional news and media, I wonder how entrench PR firms are in the social media space Watch the Fyre Festival documentary on Netflix
  - fucking_tragedy 8y ago
    Most social media platforms are designed with their clients needs in mind. Often, those clients are PR firms.
da_chicken 8y ago
Simply put, editorial and opinion sections are supposed to be like that. It's not an error; it's by design, and it's a design that has existed for as long as editorial and opinion sections have existed. You, as the reader, are expected to be know enough about how newspapers are organized to tell that you're reading part of the opinion or editorial sections and what that means. In an ideal newspaper practicing journalistic integrity, letters to the editor like the one presented here would be published in future editions of the paper, or, failing that, published in competing newspapers. Yes, everything is subject to bias. Everything is subject to bias. You cannot eliminate it. The point is to be aware of it's existence, and newspapers help do that by placing these types of pieces in their opinion and editorial sections.
- taude 8y ago
  One problem I have with it, though, is that often all the most popular articles in their site, are the opinion pieces. I'm still a subscriber, but there's a strongly "promoted" bias, IMHO, and it requires reading news from several sources with an open mind to get the complete story. Also, NYT isn't immune to click-baity titles, where the meat of the story isn't necessary correlate with the title.
  - dylan604 8y ago
    >and it requires reading news from several sources with an open mind to get the complete story. I don’t consider this a negative. I have always had a bit of that “rebellious” streak in me, so I’ve been told. I have always questioned everything. I would ask “Why?” like 2 year old. I wasn’t asking to second guess coworkers, but because I wanted to learn to fish rather than being handed a fish. The question everything mentality stuck, so I’m constantly reading multiple sources to confirm or contradict any one single source.
    - barbecue_sauce 8y ago
      Most people do not have time to do this.
unethical_ban 8y ago
It's from the "Magazine", not the news section, nor is it opinion ala "This political party sucks and why". It is the magazine, which is long-form narrative storytelling. I don't think that should exempt them from leaving out or otherwise ignoring facts.
kingkawn 8y ago
Your concept of objectivity is more flawed than their agenda
ummonk 8y ago
Yeah, the only traditional outlet that I trust to actually present a diverse set of editorial viewpoints is The Atlantic. The others, like NYT, WaPo, etc. all seem to mostly provide a very narrow set of party-line editorials.
- fgandiya 8y ago
  Doesn't David Brooks and Barris White write for them as well?
- hopler 8y ago
  How is Atlantic not a narrowly left wing mag (which is fine if that's your taste)?
dominotw 8y ago
Isn't neutral opinion just a fact.
formerReader 8y ago
The New York Times is no longer a premier news source.
pessimizer 8y ago
It's so disturbing that "integrity in journalism" and "not political" (as an adjective) has become synonymous with advocating causal relationships between behavior and race/sex. Assuming that all of those relationships are absolutely true, and would hold in a world of equal opportunity that didn't reward conforming to certain stereotypes, or punish deviating from them; even in that world, you'd assume that there'd be far more important issues at all times than these tiny postulated differences. NYT is awful, but just in the way all corporate media outlets are awful; they cater to the powerful, and protect an encourage industries in which they are also invested.

ronnier 8y ago

Funny. I just read another “suits back in style” story yesterday. https://www.france24.com/en/20190119-dowdy-no-more-men-suits-storm-back-style https://www.france24.com/en/20190119-dowdy-no-more-men-suits...

porpoisely 8y ago
Great catch and that's hilarious. I saw the same story from multiple sources/platforms yesterday. I thought the paul graham article was about yesterday's news and then I read the date "April 2005". 14 years ago. Anyone who pays attention to news for any amount of time sees redundant news and agenda. But PR stooges? If PR firms are so entwined with traditional news and media, I wonder how entrench PR firms are in the social media space.
- thwarted 8y ago
  If PR firms are so entwined with traditional news and media, I wonder how entrench PR firms are in the social media space Watch the Fyre Festival documentary on Netflix
- fucking_tragedy 8y ago
  Most social media platforms are designed with their clients needs in mind. Often, those clients are PR firms.

da_chicken 8y ago

Simply put, editorial and opinion sections are supposed to be like that. It's not an error; it's by design, and it's a design that has existed for as long as editorial and opinion sections have existed. You, as the reader, are expected to be know enough about how newspapers are organized to tell that you're reading part of the opinion or editorial sections and what that means. In an ideal newspaper practicing journalistic integrity, letters to the editor like the one presented here would be published in future editions of the paper, or, failing that, published in competing newspapers. Yes, everything is subject to bias. Everything is subject to bias. You cannot eliminate it. The point is to be aware of it's existence, and newspapers help do that by placing these types of pieces in their opinion and editorial sections.

taude 8y ago
One problem I have with it, though, is that often all the most popular articles in their site, are the opinion pieces. I'm still a subscriber, but there's a strongly "promoted" bias, IMHO, and it requires reading news from several sources with an open mind to get the complete story. Also, NYT isn't immune to click-baity titles, where the meat of the story isn't necessary correlate with the title.
- dylan604 8y ago
  >and it requires reading news from several sources with an open mind to get the complete story. I don’t consider this a negative. I have always had a bit of that “rebellious” streak in me, so I’ve been told. I have always questioned everything. I would ask “Why?” like 2 year old. I wasn’t asking to second guess coworkers, but because I wanted to learn to fish rather than being handed a fish. The question everything mentality stuck, so I’m constantly reading multiple sources to confirm or contradict any one single source.
  - barbecue_sauce 8y ago
    Most people do not have time to do this.

unethical_ban 8y ago

It's from the "Magazine", not the news section, nor is it opinion ala "This political party sucks and why". It is the magazine, which is long-form narrative storytelling. I don't think that should exempt them from leaving out or otherwise ignoring facts.

kingkawn 8y ago

Your concept of objectivity is more flawed than their agenda

ummonk 8y ago

Yeah, the only traditional outlet that I trust to actually present a diverse set of editorial viewpoints is The Atlantic. The others, like NYT, WaPo, etc. all seem to mostly provide a very narrow set of party-line editorials.

fgandiya 8y ago
Doesn't David Brooks and Barris White write for them as well?
hopler 8y ago
How is Atlantic not a narrowly left wing mag (which is fine if that's your taste)?

dominotw 8y ago

Isn't neutral opinion just a fact.

formerReader 8y ago

The New York Times is no longer a premier news source.

pessimizer 8y ago

It's so disturbing that "integrity in journalism" and "not political" (as an adjective) has become synonymous with advocating causal relationships between behavior and race/sex. Assuming that all of those relationships are absolutely true, and would hold in a world of equal opportunity that didn't reward conforming to certain stereotypes, or punish deviating from them; even in that world, you'd assume that there'd be far more important issues at all times than these tiny postulated differences. NYT is awful, but just in the way all corporate media outlets are awful; they cater to the powerful, and protect an encourage industries in which they are also invested.