> I think Lisp's (lack of) syntax adds up to a set of tradeoffs that actively repels visual thinkers/typography folks It's more of being aware that Lisp syntax

> I think Lisp's (lack of) syntax adds up to a set of tradeoffs that actively repels visual thinkers/typography folks It's more of being aware that Lisp syntax works different from what most people are used to. The current Lisp syntax was originally an accident, but it survived because it has some interesting and unique properties. Lisp code is relatively unique because it is written on top (!) of a data syntax. Thus is has a two stage syntax: a the bottom there is a syntax for s-expressions - which is purely about light-weight syntax for data - not a programming language. On top of that there is Lisp syntax, which is defined in terms of structured data. This enables code manipulation in terms of programs over hierarchical list-like data. It also enables user extensible syntax via Lisp macros. Thus a program in Lisp syntax can be written as text by serialized data, but it can also be computed in memory. Thus we'll see code which visually has more of a layout in terms of hierarchical nested lists. For this programs have been written which can produce such a layout from code as data. Lisp has an aspect of direct manipulation of code as data. You may want to design it out of the language, but few actual Lisp users would do want that - additionally it has been tried multiple times and it has often failed. For example there was a large effort to design a Lisp 2 (as a 'second generation Lisp') with non-s-expression-based syntax. A large effort, which failed and which in the end had very little influence on how Lisp programs look like. There are versions of Lisp like RLISP which had a syntax not based on s-expressions and which is still used in a software which is a computer algebra system. Dylan was another attempt of a Lisp-like language without s-expression based language. > Usually the advice is that by using a proper editor and relying on indentation, parens just stop being a noticeable problem. Another advice is to use an interactive programming environment for Lisp to actually make practical use of the unique features of Lisp syntax. To a Lisp programmer it is more useful to support this dynamic aspect of code as data AND its visual representation - more than losing these capabilities and supporting the idea of code as static text. Tools which support Lisp were for example the Interlisp-D structure editor for Lisp code and the Lisp listener for Symbolics Genera. The latter keeps the connection of the external textual representation of Lisp data and code with their underlying data representation. Otherwise we would be using ML (nowadays SML or OCAML), which was initially a functional language on top of Lisp written without s-expressions. Languages with more conventional syntax exist already - languages which combine syntax with a data representation are not so common...