5 ms·

Is there any secure smart lock? I would want one because I'm away 3 months a year and it would simplify renting my apartment on airbnb when I'm away (especially

Is there any secure smart lock? I would want one because I'm away 3 months a year and it would simplify renting my apartment on airbnb when I'm away (especially with the rent I pay in HK) but I'm also rather worried about the security implications. And from my brief research, a lot of vendors have very little documentations about security. I would obviously only consider one that has a fallback to an actual key.

justtopost 8y ago
Not that ai have seen. Check out 'the lockpicking laywer' on youtube for details on many models. He only focuses on physical security however.
smileysteve 8y ago
Define secure? A keyed tumbler lock can often be bypassed with a $10 kit and an hour's training via YouTube. Alternatively, without a frame reenforcement kit, a lock is bypassed with a strong kick. Finding a software hack is probably the least of your worries.
- 300bps 8y ago
  Technically savvy people can think of lots of ways to overcome technology. It’s easy to get hung up on the problems with something new while ignoring the problems of current systems. In addition to what you said, people often leave mechanical locks unlocked on at least one or more windows or doors. People often have easily broken glass on their doors. It’s commonly said that most locks are “courtesy locks” because they’re so easy to defeat. So I don’t understand many of the security concerns surrounding electronic locks. Privacy and failure concerns I can understand though.
- nicolas_t 8y ago
  That leads to a question I had recently, I know that some insurance will only reimburse in case of thefts if there's sign of a break-in. If someone lock-picks the lock, is there a trace of a break-in? Would such thefts be covered?
  - thisismyaccoun7 8y ago
    You can take apart the lock and see scratches on the pins as signs of picking, but bump keys are notorious for not providing a sign of break in.
    - tomatotomato37 8y ago
      I thought bump keys were the one of the more obvious methods since hammering the key in can easily dent the cylinder
munchbunny 8y ago
I think the question you're asking isn't purely about security. You're asking about a lock that maximizes security while allowing you to digitally transmit a key - in which case I don't know of any with a track record for resisting attack. Right now the predominant attitude is basically "key control is easier than trying to secure IoT." Easier to use a physical key and manually vet who gets the key than to audit an IoT setup. I tend to agree just because the state of security practices in IoT is so egregiously bad.
- nicolas_t 8y ago
  That's a good point, I could potentially disconnect the lock from internet when I'm actually staying in my apartment. When I leave it to guests, most of my important stuff are packed away. It's a hard trade off and yes I don't trust most keylocks company to get iot security right since it's not their core competence
dkarl 8y ago
If you're looking for convenience, a basic $30 (USD) lockbox (example[1]) from a hardware store is an easy way, albeit without much extra security. Whoever cleans up between guests can change the code. That's what I stuck with when I was renting my house short-term. There was always a risk that a guest could copy the key and come back a month later, but I felt like I would rather live with that risk than pay $100+ for a smart lock and potentially make myself an easily visible target for a simple hack. If some teenage hackers looking to cause mischief took a hammer or spray paint to the interior, they could easily have cost me more than a hypothetical burglar walking away with the TV and other electronics. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Lock-5400D-9-6-cu-in-Set-Your-Own-Combination-Portable-Lock-Box-5400DHC/100124915 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Lock-5400D-9-6-cu-in-Set-...
rdl 8y ago
I'm pretty comfortable with the security of the Kaba evolo (they have a range of levels of "smart", I like the less-smart ones). The best systems are currently (for non-safes), the combination strong mechanical (Abloy, etc.) plus electronic. Two systems I've seen be non-crap are Abloy Cliq and Videx CyberLock. Neither of these is residential.

justtopost 8y ago

Not that ai have seen. Check out 'the lockpicking laywer' on youtube for details on many models. He only focuses on physical security however.

smileysteve 8y ago

Define secure? A keyed tumbler lock can often be bypassed with a $10 kit and an hour's training via YouTube. Alternatively, without a frame reenforcement kit, a lock is bypassed with a strong kick. Finding a software hack is probably the least of your worries.

300bps 8y ago
Technically savvy people can think of lots of ways to overcome technology. It’s easy to get hung up on the problems with something new while ignoring the problems of current systems. In addition to what you said, people often leave mechanical locks unlocked on at least one or more windows or doors. People often have easily broken glass on their doors. It’s commonly said that most locks are “courtesy locks” because they’re so easy to defeat. So I don’t understand many of the security concerns surrounding electronic locks. Privacy and failure concerns I can understand though.
nicolas_t 8y ago
That leads to a question I had recently, I know that some insurance will only reimburse in case of thefts if there's sign of a break-in. If someone lock-picks the lock, is there a trace of a break-in? Would such thefts be covered?
- thisismyaccoun7 8y ago
  You can take apart the lock and see scratches on the pins as signs of picking, but bump keys are notorious for not providing a sign of break in.
  - tomatotomato37 8y ago
    I thought bump keys were the one of the more obvious methods since hammering the key in can easily dent the cylinder

munchbunny 8y ago

I think the question you're asking isn't purely about security. You're asking about a lock that maximizes security while allowing you to digitally transmit a key - in which case I don't know of any with a track record for resisting attack. Right now the predominant attitude is basically "key control is easier than trying to secure IoT." Easier to use a physical key and manually vet who gets the key than to audit an IoT setup. I tend to agree just because the state of security practices in IoT is so egregiously bad.

nicolas_t 8y ago
That's a good point, I could potentially disconnect the lock from internet when I'm actually staying in my apartment. When I leave it to guests, most of my important stuff are packed away. It's a hard trade off and yes I don't trust most keylocks company to get iot security right since it's not their core competence

dkarl 8y ago

If you're looking for convenience, a basic $30 (USD) lockbox (example[1]) from a hardware store is an easy way, albeit without much extra security. Whoever cleans up between guests can change the code. That's what I stuck with when I was renting my house short-term. There was always a risk that a guest could copy the key and come back a month later, but I felt like I would rather live with that risk than pay $100+ for a smart lock and potentially make myself an easily visible target for a simple hack. If some teenage hackers looking to cause mischief took a hammer or spray paint to the interior, they could easily have cost me more than a hypothetical burglar walking away with the TV and other electronics. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Lock-5400D-9-6-cu-in-Set-Your-Own-Combination-Portable-Lock-Box-5400DHC/100124915 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Lock-5400D-9-6-cu-in-Set-...

rdl 8y ago

I'm pretty comfortable with the security of the Kaba evolo (they have a range of levels of "smart", I like the less-smart ones). The best systems are currently (for non-safes), the combination strong mechanical (Abloy, etc.) plus electronic. Two systems I've seen be non-crap are Abloy Cliq and Videx CyberLock. Neither of these is residential.