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They're something of a plague in my home town as well, they're strewn all over the pavement/sidewalk/footpath(/whatever regional word), even when there was bare

They're something of a plague in my home town as well, they're strewn all over the pavement/sidewalk/footpath(/whatever regional word), even when there was barely enough room for pedestrians. Perhaps the users/distributors of these things aren't trying to come across as inconsiderate, but that's certainly the end result. Pedestrians need their own space. These scooters shouldn't mix with pedestrian traffic at all

AmericanChopper 8y ago
>Pedestrians need their own space. These scooters shouldn't mix with pedestrian traffic at all Not sure how this is any different than suggesting that cars need their own space and that bicycles shouldn’t mix with motor traffic at all.
- jeroenhd 8y ago
  Up to a point that's true. Low-speed roads are fine for mixing bikes and cars but once cars start going twice as fast as bikes (say, 40-50kph) you need separated bike lanes to have a safe biking experience. If you don't, bikes are likely to cause either massive safety risks or huge traffic slowdowns, which themselves can be a safety risk. The same can be said for these scooters. Pedestrians walk at about 5kph; Lime scooters (at least the Lime-S ones) can go up to about 25kph. That's 5x the pedestrian speed; that's like biking on a road where people drive 100kph. These scooters should be treated like bikes, not like pedestrians. A safe traffic segregation would be pedestrians separated from bikes separated from motor traffic, with anything going above 10kph classified as bikes.
  - AmericanChopper 8y ago
    It’s suggestion that pedestrians and scooters not being able to share a space at all, that I find equivalent to a suggestion that motorists and cyclists should not be able to share a space at all. I also don’t buy your suggestion that a difference in speed of 15-20kmph is the same as a 70-80kmph difference in speed. There’s plenty of situations where it’s safe to ride a scooter at 20kmph on a footpath, and from what I’ve seen, riding a lime on a foot path involves a lot of entirely safe speeding up and slowing down. In an ideal world, there’d be enough room for cars, bikes, scooters and pedestrians all of have their dedicated space. But we don’t live in that world. Few people would ride limes on the road, which wouldn’t be any safer. If you were going to make anything illegal, banning riding scooters on the footpath would be about as good as banning them al together, and capping their speed at 10kmph wouldn’t be much better. Why not just apply the same rules to scooters that are applied to vehicles? Carelessly driving a vehicle on the road is illegal, why can’t it be for a scooter on the sidewalk? The lime riders who are considerate and slow down in busy areas aren’t a danger or a problem.
  - Tharkun 8y ago
    Even at low speeds bikes and cars shouldn't mix. Getting hit by a car sucks, at any speed. Of course the risk and severity of injury goes up as speed increases. We have a guideline that says that up to 30km/h cars and bicycles can mix, that bicycles need their own elevated lane at 50km/h and that they need a lane that's physically separated from motorised traffic at 70km/h or over. There are some streets where cars and bikes mix, and where cars aren't permitted to overtike bikes (at all, ever, under any circumstance). Of course, motorists ignore this and will honk at "slow" cyclists.
- Tharkun 8y ago
  It's no different. Bicycles should never mix with motor traffic. This is why bike lanes are a thing.
calgoo 8y ago
Here in spain the police just removed all of them from the street, and told the companies that they are not allowed to just dump these on the sidewalks. So here, most people have bought their own scooters that you keep in your house, and take up to the office. For example, on my floor at the office, there are normally at least 5 or 6 of them.
- jonreem 8y ago
  How efficient...
dzhiurgis 8y ago
Plague is lack of bike lanes and cars, not scooters.

AmericanChopper 8y ago

>Pedestrians need their own space. These scooters shouldn't mix with pedestrian traffic at all Not sure how this is any different than suggesting that cars need their own space and that bicycles shouldn’t mix with motor traffic at all.

jeroenhd 8y ago
Up to a point that's true. Low-speed roads are fine for mixing bikes and cars but once cars start going twice as fast as bikes (say, 40-50kph) you need separated bike lanes to have a safe biking experience. If you don't, bikes are likely to cause either massive safety risks or huge traffic slowdowns, which themselves can be a safety risk. The same can be said for these scooters. Pedestrians walk at about 5kph; Lime scooters (at least the Lime-S ones) can go up to about 25kph. That's 5x the pedestrian speed; that's like biking on a road where people drive 100kph. These scooters should be treated like bikes, not like pedestrians. A safe traffic segregation would be pedestrians separated from bikes separated from motor traffic, with anything going above 10kph classified as bikes.
- AmericanChopper 8y ago
  It’s suggestion that pedestrians and scooters not being able to share a space at all, that I find equivalent to a suggestion that motorists and cyclists should not be able to share a space at all. I also don’t buy your suggestion that a difference in speed of 15-20kmph is the same as a 70-80kmph difference in speed. There’s plenty of situations where it’s safe to ride a scooter at 20kmph on a footpath, and from what I’ve seen, riding a lime on a foot path involves a lot of entirely safe speeding up and slowing down. In an ideal world, there’d be enough room for cars, bikes, scooters and pedestrians all of have their dedicated space. But we don’t live in that world. Few people would ride limes on the road, which wouldn’t be any safer. If you were going to make anything illegal, banning riding scooters on the footpath would be about as good as banning them al together, and capping their speed at 10kmph wouldn’t be much better. Why not just apply the same rules to scooters that are applied to vehicles? Carelessly driving a vehicle on the road is illegal, why can’t it be for a scooter on the sidewalk? The lime riders who are considerate and slow down in busy areas aren’t a danger or a problem.
- Tharkun 8y ago
  Even at low speeds bikes and cars shouldn't mix. Getting hit by a car sucks, at any speed. Of course the risk and severity of injury goes up as speed increases. We have a guideline that says that up to 30km/h cars and bicycles can mix, that bicycles need their own elevated lane at 50km/h and that they need a lane that's physically separated from motorised traffic at 70km/h or over. There are some streets where cars and bikes mix, and where cars aren't permitted to overtike bikes (at all, ever, under any circumstance). Of course, motorists ignore this and will honk at "slow" cyclists.
Tharkun 8y ago
It's no different. Bicycles should never mix with motor traffic. This is why bike lanes are a thing.

calgoo 8y ago

Here in spain the police just removed all of them from the street, and told the companies that they are not allowed to just dump these on the sidewalks. So here, most people have bought their own scooters that you keep in your house, and take up to the office. For example, on my floor at the office, there are normally at least 5 or 6 of them.

jonreem 8y ago
How efficient...

dzhiurgis 8y ago

Plague is lack of bike lanes and cars, not scooters.