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IIRC: In Norway, the government computes your taxes for you and you can approve of their work by text messaging. In the US, taxes are complexified to hide welf

IIRC: In Norway, the government computes your taxes for you and you can approve of their work by text messaging. In the US, taxes are complexified to hide welfare for the rich[0] and put a burden on the non-rich people that they must fill out complicated tax forms correctly "or else." 0: This isn't idle rhetoric: That's what campaign financing buys: favorable treatment and tax law chicanery. Does anyone think it's right billionaires should pay less taxes than their secretaries?

kwhitefoot 8y ago
> In Norway, the government computes your taxes for you and you can approve of their work by text messaging. If you agree with the numbers you don't do anything at all.
- Jolter 8y ago
  In Sweden you have to reply if you agree as well, because otherwise they could never convict someone of tax fraud if the pre-computed data is missing some of your income, for example. (Well, maybe they could convict you, but it would be hard to defend that morally when they didn't even force you to acknowledge the numbers.)
  - stolsvik 8y ago
    Why would that be true? Law: "Thou shalt inform the government about finances that affect tax, or else be heavily fined or put in prison when we find out." No need to have this information duty tied up to the tax return.
indigochill 8y ago
The Icelandic government also pre-computes taxes. It takes me maybe five minutes to do taxes in Iceland and I don't even speak Icelandic. Multiply that several times to do my US taxes and add some extra fees on top because I use tax prep software. The really funny bit is I never owe anything in the US since I solely live and operate in Iceland so all that's covered by my Icelandic taxes, but as a US citizen I'm required to file regardless.
blitmap 8y ago
I know it's possible for billionaires to pay a lower effective tax rate (the percentage) than a secretary. I wish we had raw data showing they paid less in the dollar amount. I believe this happens, I just wish we had a good idea of how common it is.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  A billionaire paying a lower dollar amount in taxes than a secretary? Yes, I would also like to see data on that, because I doubt it happens. :P The scenario does arise when we're talking about percentages, because billionaires make much of their wealth from capital gains and the like. But it's hard for me to imagine how the actual dollar amount paid could be lower.
  - blitmap 8y ago
    I should have phrased this another way: I believe fraud happens.

kwhitefoot 8y ago

> In Norway, the government computes your taxes for you and you can approve of their work by text messaging. If you agree with the numbers you don't do anything at all.

Jolter 8y ago
In Sweden you have to reply if you agree as well, because otherwise they could never convict someone of tax fraud if the pre-computed data is missing some of your income, for example. (Well, maybe they could convict you, but it would be hard to defend that morally when they didn't even force you to acknowledge the numbers.)
- stolsvik 8y ago
  Why would that be true? Law: "Thou shalt inform the government about finances that affect tax, or else be heavily fined or put in prison when we find out." No need to have this information duty tied up to the tax return.

indigochill 8y ago

The Icelandic government also pre-computes taxes. It takes me maybe five minutes to do taxes in Iceland and I don't even speak Icelandic. Multiply that several times to do my US taxes and add some extra fees on top because I use tax prep software. The really funny bit is I never owe anything in the US since I solely live and operate in Iceland so all that's covered by my Icelandic taxes, but as a US citizen I'm required to file regardless.

blitmap 8y ago

I know it's possible for billionaires to pay a lower effective tax rate (the percentage) than a secretary. I wish we had raw data showing they paid less in the dollar amount. I believe this happens, I just wish we had a good idea of how common it is.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
A billionaire paying a lower dollar amount in taxes than a secretary? Yes, I would also like to see data on that, because I doubt it happens. :P The scenario does arise when we're talking about percentages, because billionaires make much of their wealth from capital gains and the like. But it's hard for me to imagine how the actual dollar amount paid could be lower.
- blitmap 8y ago
  I should have phrased this another way: I believe fraud happens.